GroupSave Blackout Dates - where to find them in advance?

[whole diary]

[thetrout]

I've just had a play around grahame, The National Rail Enquiries Page you quoted in your first post still does not show the December Restrictions! It shows the September, October and November 2013 ones though. Which is of absolutely no help whatsoever.

I have not managed to get FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s WebTIS to offer me GroupSave 3 on any trains from Frome (FRO^» (Frome - next trains)) - Bath Spa (BTH^» (Bath Spa - next trains)) arriving before 14:00 on Saturday 14th December. I crosschecked this with thetrainline.com and EastCoast. Both gave the same result.

Oldfield Park (OLF) was a different story. FGW WebTIS and thetrainline.com offered GroupSave 3 to Oldfield Park on Saturday 14th December.

The ticket prices in the case of FRO - BTH are exactly the same as FRO - OLF however we know not how this will be taken with a break of journey. I'm sure an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) could see what you were up to, but if the ticket purchased allowed Break of Journey I wonder what could be done about it. Yes it's very much gaming the system and I know that. But in terms of validity... Well I can't decide really.

There is still the option of using PlusBus from OLF into Bath City Centre. You could walk it as well but that would take at least a good 30 minutes.

However here is a useful cheat and one which I believe is perfectly "moral"

Frome - Oldfield Park Off Peak Day Return (CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))):
GroupSave 4 Price: ^19.80
GroupSave 3 Price: ^19.65
4x CDR Price: ^9.90 each x 4 = ^39.60

Oldfield Park - Bath Spa:
4x CDR: ^2.50 each x 4 = ^10.00
3x CDR: ^2.50 each x 3 = ^7.50

Total Frome - Oldfield Park - Bath Spa:
4x Passengers using the Oldfield Park Detour: ^29.80
3x Passengers using the Oldfield Park Detour: ^27.15

Oldfield Park Detour Saving based on:

4x Passengers = ^9.80
3x Passengers = ^2.55

So for 4 Passengers between Frome and Bath Spa on Bath Christmas Market with a scenic detour via Oldfield Park a considerable saving.

Trains from Frome - Oldfield Park normally call there, but if you end up on one of the few where you change at Westbury at Change is necessary at Bath Spa in some cases. Normally it's a later train from Westbury but there are a very few odd balls out there naturally!

[JayMac]

If you can link into the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) morning services from Westbury (0709, 1121) to Bath then you can use those trains legitimately. Not barred by booking engines... 

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) only protecting from potential overcrowding on their own services it seems.

[JayMac]

Of course, I didn't really email FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to ask for the list of dates/times. email is so last year!

A public complaint via Facebook gets a much a swifter response. Not a perfect one mind... but attached is a list of barred dates/times/destinations up to 25th January 2014. 

I note that the long-standing Friday afternoon bars from Paddington to the West on the 14:06, 15:06, 16:06, 17:03, 18:03, 19:03 aren't listed. Presumably then, GroupSave is now permitted on these services.

[John R]

The ticket prices in the case of FRO^» (Frome - next trains) - BTH^» (Bath Spa - next trains) are exactly the same as FRO - OLF however we know not how this will be taken with a break of journey. I'm sure an RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context)) could see what you were up to, but if the ticket purchased allowed Break of Journey I wonder what could be done about it. Yes it's very much gaming the system and I know that. But in terms of validity... Well I can't decide really.

I would not try it, as it is clear that you are trying to avoid paying the correct fare for the journey. Even if it was decided that it could not be challenged, if the railway had evidence that it was being abused, it could have consequences for the whole of the GroupSave scheme. A similar example of this is where some TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) felt that people were using the All Line Rover for purposes other than travelling around the country for a week. Now in that case, there was no question that what people were doing was perfectly legitimate (using it, as an example, for two peak returns from Manchester to London). But the consequence was that restrictions have been slapped on it, to avoid such usage, to the detriment of genuine users of the Rover.

[JayMac]

Just had confirmation on Facebook that the bar on Friday afternoon services from Paddington to the West has been lifted.

Somehow I think Arran at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Facebook may be wrong on that one. Booking engines still bar them.

[ChrisB]

You would be allowed to travel - as the offer WAS obviously in place at the time you bought your ticket.

It is for the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to ensure online or ticket office staff are aware of any black-out dates & prevent the sale. If you achieve the discount, there is no way that they can subsequently be dishonoured. THat is the law of the land wherever you buy this sort of offer in whatever merchandise area....

So go ahead & book. If you can find the offer on the dates you want, it's yours.

But if they subsequently apply the offer after you buy non-discount, that is your lookout.

[JayMac]

Just had confirmation on Facebook that the bar on Friday afternoon services from Paddington to the West has been lifted.

Somehow I think Arran at FGW^▸ (First Great Western) Facebook may be wrong on that one. Booking engines still bar them.

Despite NOT being on the list given to me by FGW, and having one FGW Facebook employee telling me GroupSave WAS permitted, Friday afternoon services to the West ARE barred from use of GroupSave.

Not a clue. Only in the rail industry would their be so much disinformation, or lack of information regarding the terms of a special offer. 

At least NRE^‡(resolve) have been spurred into action. GroupSave barred dated for the next three months have now gone online. Like the trains, better late than never.

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/48462.aspx

But, what's this? GroupSave is barred to Bath before 1400 on Saturday 21st December. Reason? Bath Christmas Market. Which finishes on 15th December 2013.

Not a clue.

[JayMac]

Doing FGW^▸ (First Great Western)'s job for them without thanks.

It's because of Rugby in Bath on 21st December, not Christmas Market. 

[bobm]

Still can't understand why the Christmas market closes 10 days before Christmas. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Because they'll want to clear the shelves and start stocking Easter eggs, probably. 

[JayMac]

Retailers.

Set up a garden shed in the street or a car park. Stick a bit on tinsel on it and some coloured lights. Then sell festive goods at three times the price they can be had for online.

Call it a Christmas Market.

Cynical? Moi? 

[Lee]

One could always wait until the last day and grab the gear as they desperately flog it off at a fraction of the originally marked price...

[bobm]

Had a quick look around after the Colin Maggs lecture http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13201.msg143054#msg143054 and there were some nice things to be had.

Inevitably one of my favourites was the cheddar cheese stall. Some very nice varieties which are unlikely to last in my fridge until Christmas. None of those foreign ones or those with mould in!  

Also picked up a few ideas for Christmas pressies which I might buy next week.

Oh and just for bignosemac the sheds have arrived in Swindon for their Christmas market which starts on Thursday (5th). Somehow I doubt they'll need to ban Groupsave for that!

[Timmer]

Retailers.

Set up a garden shed in the street or a car park. Stick a bit on tinsel on it and some coloured lights. Then sell festive goods at three times the price they can be had for online.

Call it a Christmas Market.

Cynical? Moi? 

Yep that about sums it up, yet people flock to Bath from all over the country to view these products in a garden shed and it gets bigger every year stretching Bath's transport infustructure beyond the limit. I think most people in Bath will be glad to see the back of it and see the city return to something near normality for this time of year. Still a nice little earner for the council.

[bobm]

Noticed the list of barred dates on National Rail enquiries now runs to the end of March.  Every one is introduced by FGW^▸ (First Great Western).  Does no other TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company), which takes Groupsave, bar dates?