Disruption on Monday 23 and Tuesday 24 December 2013

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

... my contract states I don't have to work any Sundays, Xmas Day, Boxing Day or New Years Day and to be honest I regularly invoke this clause.

My employment contract (not rail-related!) is similar - but I was happy to work a 12 hour Sunday last weekend: kerching! 

[LiskeardRich]

England and Wales do not celebrate the true festival of boxing day. Traditionally boxing day is of sporting events in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), and fans need transport to visit sporting events. In more recent years it has become the busiest shopping day of the year again people need transport.

UK Transport companies need to come out of the dark ages and provide a service on boxing day.

[TaplowGreen]

England and Wales do not celebrate the true festival of boxing day. Traditionally boxing day is of sporting events in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), and fans need transport to visit sporting events. In more recent years it has become the busiest shopping day of the year again people need transport.

UK Transport companies need to come out of the dark ages and provide a service on boxing day.

-absolutely right, but can you see Bob Crow and the rail unions agreeing to it? They specialise in living in the Dark Ages, or the 1970s at least.....

Good luck to everyone hoping to travel by train tomorrow (including me!), looking at the forecast I reckon it'll be fun and games again!!!

[didcotdean]

We go round this most years. Boxing Day services were withdrawn some years in the mid 70s to early 1980s to save money as there wasn't in those days the demand. Christmas Day services went for similar reasons a decade earlier. ASLEF^» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) at the time protested against these cuts on public service grounds. Working on those days were part of the normal contractual terms back then; for whatever reason this was allowed to drop out of contracts in the 1990s, which makes it difficult to bring them back, engineering work planning notwithstanding. Not impossible in limited circumstances though.

[Super Guard]

In the case of the train stranded at Taunton being on the train whilst not the most comfortable of places was possibly the safest place overnight, hopefully FGW^▸ (First Great Western) provided hot drinks and snacks.

It is reported that they did

No longer really 'news', but just for the record - from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Dan Panes, from First Great Western, said: "We kept people warm and fed and watered through the night and we got them on their way this morning. Our staff on the trains were superb. We kept passengers as informed as we could. Unfortunately, we were hoping the water would subside so we could run the train to its final destination but that wasn't to be. Nobody wants to be stuck on a train overnight. We're very grateful to those customers for their patience and understanding."

Indeed - a colleague of mine has told me that all the bus firms refused to attend, customer hosts and a fresh supply of food and drink were sent up from Exeter, and also replacement TM^‡(resolve)/driver were sent to relieve the crew.  In addition a member of management was present during the night, so passengers were definitely NOT left on their own.

[Chris from Nailsea]

... and, purely in the interests of accuracy and to avoid causing any possible offence, it's actually Dan Panes from First Great Western. 

[Super Guard]

We go round this most years...

Already this year too...

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4057

[grahame]

We go round this most years.

We do indeed 

I would be very interested to hear how the Chiltern service from Bicester to Marylebone did today if anyone knows.

There are very strong views in several directions, and it's good to air them here - they are very welcome.   Society is changing, and with it the balance will change over the years, so I expect we'll have more here on the subject in 2014, in 2015, in 2016 ... that's presuming that things haven't changed in such a way that this forum gets swept away!

I look forward to getting some trains back on the TransWilts after a gap of some 88 hours, which is some 50 hours longer than the gap I would like to have seen purely from a marketing and impetus perspective.   Would love to have had the opportunity to pack 'em in today to the football and sales at the Outlet centre rather than seeing 'em all going in their cars.

[Super Guard]

You've missed my point completely and I aware that someone attempted to address my previous point - I was referring to any compensation/goodwill payments that might be made, and the lack of alternative arrangements for these passengers who were stranded for hours - to preserve the feelings of some, this was not implying any criticism of their beloved TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) for failing to arrive on time in horrendous conditions, more the plight of their customers, with whom they have entered into a contract, when they are stranded and/or massively delayed.

My observation re: Easyjet was just that - they innovated and adopted a "can do" attitude, they asked themselves "what can we do for our customers" and came up with a solution.

The major Airports, like most important services with the almost unique exception of the railways , do not shut up shop for 48 hours over Christmas, they realise life goes on, despite maintenance works, so for Gatwick it wasn't an issue.

Even the Tube is running on Boxing Day, albeit having narrowly avoided the traditional festive RMT^▸ (National Union of Rail, Maritime & Transport Workers) strike with a bribe.

With respect, from reading through I don't think the point has been missed completely, you seem to be merging two topics of discussion into one argument.  (1. X-mas & Boxing Day lack of service and 2. What alternatives/compensation should be provided in times of being stranded/mass-disruption).

You were given a reasonable explanation as to why service is not even attempted at Christmas and the implications of cancelling engineering.  There are plenty of railway staff who probably would run a service on Boxing Day, money always talks, even though our contracts say we are not required for work.  (There are drivers who already volunteer to work in depots over Christmas/Boxing Day to ensure rolling stock is fit for service on 27th).  The fact is it is a moot point for a number of years due to the mass engineering works going on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line).  However, please don't tarnish all staff with the brush that we are all stuck in the 70s.  Afterall, Chiltern managed to crew a Boxing Day service didn't they?

You were also given a reasonable reply as to the arrangements that were made for the Taunton terminator and we obviously cannot discuss what compensation may or may not be forthcoming in due course.  I don't have an issue with anyone coming on here criticising our beloved TOC when it's due, although I reserve the right to say absolutely nothing negative about my employer for obvious reasons  , however you keep implying that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) didn't have a "can do" attitude, so out of interest, with 200+ passengers, coach companies saying no, no chance of 50+ taxis available at that time of night and a belief the line may be open during the night, with free food, drink and a dry environment provided, AND passengers already knowing there could be mass cancellations and delays due to the weather, what more would you have done if you were the manager in charge?  I'd be more than happy to feedback your suggestions...

To add, from personal experience I was once delayed 7hrs 53 minutes at Gatwick due to an aircraft fault and awaiting parts from Paris to arrive and be fitted.  I was offered a ^5 airport food voucher after 4 hours and was told to claim anything else from my travel insurer.  The fact my policy didn't pay out for travel delay until 8 hours had passed I got nothing.  No refund, no additional compensation, nothing. (This was a few years before EU^» (European Union - about) Compensation came into force).  I have a lot of interest in the aviation industry and I have read many many cases of our wonderful airlines now refusing EU compensation even when it's due in black and white!

[lordgoata]

When was the last time the wires fell down on HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel)? OHLE engineers have learnt from the past.

Whilst there are always exceptions (like the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 159 fleet), electric trains are usually more reliable than diesel trains. Although OHLE failure can be severe, even on the East Coast it is still a rare enough event such that it makes headlines when things go wrong. It's not a day to day occurrence.

The Taunton incident involved a diesel train, so what complaining about electric trains proves I do not know!

I don't know the network, I couldn't tell you where HS1 was even if I used it! Nor could I tell you if it was even electrified, I'm merely a customer using FGW^▸ (First Great Western), which is how I ended up here. So from a purely simplistic point of view, my line of thinking was if 80+ trees had come down across the network (plus the sheds and trampolines Network Rail reported), that a lot of the overhead lines would have had trees landing on them, causing damage. Sure the equipment maybe strong enough to withstand it, I have no idea, but falling trees and over head cables always sound like a recipe for disaster, I know that's often the cause of electricity outages in these conditions at least.

If the OHLE system will be more robust in high winds and storm conditions, then alls the better and roll on its completion!

[Electric train]

When was the last time the wires fell down on HS1^▸ (High Speed line 1 - St Pancras to Channel Tunnel)? OHLE engineers have learnt from the past.

Whilst there are always exceptions (like the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) 159 fleet), electric trains are usually more reliable than diesel trains. Although OHLE failure can be severe, even on the East Coast it is still a rare enough event such that it makes headlines when things go wrong. It's not a day to day occurrence.

The Taunton incident involved a diesel train, so what complaining about electric trains proves I do not know!

I don't know the network, I couldn't tell you where HS1 was even if I used it! Nor could I tell you if it was even electrified, I'm merely a customer using FGW^▸ (First Great Western), which is how I ended up here. So from a purely simplistic point of view, my line of thinking was if 80+ trees had come down across the network (plus the sheds and trampolines Network Rail reported), that a lot of the overhead lines would have had trees landing on them, causing damage. Sure the equipment maybe strong enough to withstand it, I have no idea, but falling trees and over head cables always sound like a recipe for disaster, I know that's often the cause of electricity outages in these conditions at least.

If the OHLE system will be more robust in high winds and storm conditions, then alls the better and roll on its completion!

The OLE^▸ (Overhead Line Equipment, more often "OHLE") can with stand quite a lot, NR^» (Network Rail - home page) does clear trees from around the OLE (until that is locals get irate in the nesting season, vegetation grows the quickest in the nesting season).  Its items like plastic sheeting blown form neighbours land that can be a big problem wet plastic conducts a 25kV and doesn't do pantographs a lot of good either.  In very high winds trains will be slowed down due to the train sway caused by the wind also the wire gets moved by the wind

[ChrisB]

Chiltern's service did well. The penultimate round trip from London being delayed by a collision with a Muntjac - fortunately, the train was able to continue.

Some crowding issues on the last run - 3 1730 kick-offs were missed in the planning & fans only just scraped onto this last service.

I suspect Bicester Village got a good enough return to pay for it again next year. Crew were failing over each other to work for what was a very good offer on the table.

[IndustryInsider]

I suspect Bicester Village got a good enough return to pay for it again next year. Crew were failing over each other to work for what was a very good offer on the table.

Good news there then.  I heard there were roughly double the number of volunteers against the number of shifts available, so a draw was done to determine who got the work.

[ChrisB]

yup, that's right!

[LiskeardRich]

I suspect Bicester Village got a good enough return to pay for it again next year. Crew were failing over each other to work for what was a very good offer on the table.

Good news there then.  I heard there were roughly double the number of volunteers against the number of shifts available, so a draw was done to determine who got the work.

I doubt the Unions will acknowledge this in their crusade that their members don't want to work such days!