Weather disruption caused in 2014, and how to prevent it happening again - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

The Oxford-Didcot shuttle used a 3-car unit yesterday (and again today).  With calls at Culham and Appleford suspended, I find it pretty pathetic that a 5 or 6-car service couldn't have been found.  A couple of the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) from the Cotswolds and some freight was all that was allowed to pass through the Hinksey flooding when the signals were working OK and there was just a 5mph restriction.  A much more comprehensive service could have been provided, such as a XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) path per hour, or a second shuttle, or both, without it causing problems.

There appears to be a distinct lack of the old 'roll your sleeves up and get on with it' mentality.

Comes down to damage. There's little point in getting too many units water-damaged & out of use for days/weeks awaiting repair. Things would be worse then than if the water level drops in 24/48 hours & a normal service resumes.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) committed three turbo sets to OXF^» (Oxford - next trains)-DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) last time the floods came to that section _ I suspect the same this time. Any more & the damaged sets are out for ages being repaired.

I'm with the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) on this one. the flooding is not their fault. They don't see why they should get sets water damaged & therefore pay for repairs. Advice is not to travel - its unprecedented, and companies need to work around their employees being disrupted.

If you don't like it. Drive.

[bobm]

The water levels at Hinksey have dropped a little this morning, although they are expected to rise again later.

If you don't like it. Drive.

That's all very well if you have that option.  Some of us don't.

[BBM]

If you don't like it. Drive.

That's all very well if you have that option.  Some of us don't.

And even if you do have that option, the photos posted on the GetReading news story below at 8.25 this morning would prove that it's not an easy one:

http://www.getreading.co.uk/news/local-news/live-flooding-news-around-reading-6693611

[ChrisB]

Quite. So both pax & Company need to start making alternative plans. Climate change is coming & this will become a more regular occurrence. Disruption WILL happen. Make plans.

[Pb_devon]

  Overheard the following conversation at Totnes yesterday,  ''Is their something wrong with the Trains''.

I think it's quite well-known that occasionally some of the residents of Totnes are not entirely connected with reality 

[Pb_devon]

A detailed report in the local paper of the PMs visit to Laira Depot yesterday, with a number of photo's.  It confirms that the class 43 was being loaded for haulage 'up-country' (to answer a previous posting).

http://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/Prime-Minister-David-Cameron-visit-South-West/story-20595996-detail/story.html

[TaplowGreen]

Quite. So both pax & Company need to start making alternative plans. Climate change is coming & this will become a more regular occurrence. Disruption WILL happen. Make plans.

....one part of the Company plan may be ensuring that when replacement buses are advertised from Maidenhead as they were this morning would be to (a) ensure they turn up in at least something like sufficient quantities somewhere near the times they are needed and (b) ensure that the drivers aren't already up to their permissible driving hours......they failed in both of these this morning.

Maybe the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) could maintain a small fleet of coaches for these circumstances and other bustitutions rather than relying on ad hoc arrangements with third parties?

I know that people were advised not to travel "unless absolutely necessary" however this is not easily quantifiable to those who have to get to work.

I was under the impression that people were being encouraged to use the trains rather than drive for environmental and other reasons, rather than being told to drive every time there's a problem.

Perhaps someone (perhaps Chris?) could explain what the railways are proactively doing to address the challenges presented by climate change?

[Tim]

[

Comes down to damage. There's little point in getting too many units water-damaged & out of use for days/weeks awaiting repair. Things would be worse then than if the water level drops in 24/48 hours & a normal service resumes.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) committed three turbo sets to OXF^» (Oxford - next trains)-DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) last time the floods came to that section _ I suspect the same this time. Any more & the damaged sets are out for ages being repaired.

I'm with the TOCs^▸ (Train Operating Company) on this one. the flooding is not their fault. They don't see why they should get sets water damaged & therefore pay for repairs. Advice is not to travel - its unprecedented, and companies need to work around their employees being disrupted.

I agree, but we are about to order a whole load of new electric trains in this country. It would be nice is "being able to drive through a bit of water" was part of their spec. 

[Phil]

The water levels at Hinksey have dropped a little this morning, although they are expected to rise again later.

If you don't like it. Drive.

That's all very well if you have that option.  Some of us don't.

Yes, I have to say that's a pretty insensitive comment. I'm surprised at you, ChrisB. Train travel isn't a matter of choice for many, it's a necessity. Personally I do have a choice as although I've recently sold my car (thanks almost entirely to an improved train service on the Trans Wilts line which has enabled me to do that) I do have access to my wife's car when I need it; but I know innumerable people - particularly young city dwellers who are used to having a number of alternative transport options available to them - for whom car driving simply isn't an option.

[ChrisB]

Sorry, but in instances like this, if it *truly* is a necessity, get a hotel.

But it isn't for the vast majority.

If you really can't get to work, companies have to accept. Or make adjustments to working hours temporarily. Most pax will take a day off for a heavy (or not so heavy) cold. This is different and much worse, in that we have to accept that transport is majorly disrupted, so either work around it, or make alternatives.

It isn't the fault of the transport companies and as I said above - do we want a fleet unable to run just while the water's causing a problem, or a whole fleet damaged & out of action for weeks until fixed. It's a no-brainer, frankly.

The Government should be leaning hard on London companies to accept travel hardship and getting them to be flexible / understanding with effected employees. Something they just aren't doing atm.

Ditto with those flooded out too.

[grahame]

I am in danger of posting something quite provocative here ... having just had a customer for whom we'd set up a course for tomorrow and Thursday cancel on us "due to the weather" and the travel advise that's emblazoned all over the place.   Of course, he doesn't expect to actually pay anything extra for cancelling at less that 24 hours notice and having me take another two days in due course to meet his tailored requirements, and as he works for a big employer who is likely to send us further business from time to time, we probably have to roll over and take the loss.

Now - if the trains truly weren't running and it would be dangerous for him to come, fair enough.   But ... that's not the case.  The train he was advised to catch was planned to run all the time, and in the end was 2 minutes late off Paddington, and looks on course to have made that up by Swindon, to connect into the TransWilts service that's running like clockwork.

The Government should be leaning hard on London companies to accept travel hardship and getting them to be flexible / understanding with effected employees.

Flexible, yes. Understanding, yes.   Out of pocket and seriously messed up - not only for this week, but for another week later in the month when we'll have to reschedule?   

Sorry, but in instances like this, if it *truly* is a necessity, get a hotel.

Our guest did have a hotel booked ... guess we carry the tab for that unlet room too ...

Whilst I think that there are some over-sensational "do not travel" messages out there - far more than I would have expected to see in the past - I also have a great deal of sympathy for the train operators and hope they have better commercial backup.   Have we gone over the top in turning people away?  Are we turning into a nation of fair-weather travellers?

[ChrisB]

Not at all - maybe both sides should have insisted on insurance? With a clear advice "not to travel unless absolutely necessary", it would pay out...

[IndustryInsider]

Comes down to damage. There's little point in getting too many units water-damaged & out of use for days/weeks awaiting repair. Things would be worse then than if the water level drops in 24/48 hours & a normal service resumes.

FGW^▸ (First Great Western) committed three turbo sets to OXF^» (Oxford - next trains)-DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) last time the floods came to that section _ I suspect the same this time. Any more & the damaged sets are out for ages being repaired.

I could buy that as a reason if the water levels were sufficiently high, but at Hinksey yesterday the highest level of water over the main running lines was over one inch below the level of the rail, and showing no signs of rising any further.  A train travelling over that at the prescribed 5mph maximum would not even get wet, let alone damaged!

An hourly shuttle uses up one unit as well, so two units would give you an hourly 6-car train.

[ChrisB]

They were using 2car units (less seats lost to damage I guess)

I'm sure there would be a reason why 3 units were in operation - if they could have got away with just two (or even one), I'm sure they would have....

[TaplowGreen]

Sorry, but in instances like this, if it *truly* is a necessity, get a hotel.

But it isn't for the vast majority.

If you really can't get to work, companies have to accept. Or make adjustments to working hours temporarily. Most pax will take a day off for a heavy (or not so heavy) cold. This is different and much worse, in that we have to accept that transport is majorly disrupted, so either work around it, or make alternatives.

It isn't the fault of the transport companies and as I said above - do we want a fleet unable to run just while the water's causing a problem, or a whole fleet damaged & out of action for weeks until fixed. It's a no-brainer, frankly.


The Government should be leaning hard on London companies to accept travel hardship and getting them to be flexible / understanding with effected employees. Something they just aren't doing atm.

Ditto with those flooded out too.

Chris do you live in the real world are you just indulging in a little trolling for your own amusement?

Who is going to pay for all these hotel rooms?

And who are you to judge whether it's necessary for someone to get to work? Do you draw the line at Doctors?  Engineers? Policemen? Firemen? Social workers? Cleaners?

"Most people will take a day off with a heavy cold" - presumably you have evidence for this or are you just speculating?

No-one is saying that its the fault of the transport companies but it doesn't mean that everyone is able to kick back and forget about work........I wonder how your Boss feels about it? (if you have one?)..........in either case I doubt you've ever operated in a commercial environment judging by your comments which are breathtakingly naive at best, or as I've said perhaps just trolling?