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Author Topic: Tribulations for newcomers - and oldcomers too  (Read 5418 times)
grahame
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« on: March 13, 2014, 21:01:01 »

I attended the Wiltshire LSTF (Local Sustainable Transport Fund) Workshop earlier today - a topic for another post and rather more positives than negatives to report there.  But one of the subjects that came up from one of our political speakers was just how difficult and unwelcoming the system is for newcomers.   

He spoke of flying in to Bristol Airport and getting the transfer bus to Temple Meads, which unloads all of its pensioner passengers "halfway back down the ramp" to struggle with their luggage up to the station entrance, when taxis dropping off one or two people per vehicle, and rarely with much luggage, stop at the front door.

He spoke of having to queue to get his ticket, not confident of choosing the right ticket at a TVM (Ticket Vending Machine), and surprised that just one window was open.

And he spoke of going up to the buffet on the HST (High Speed Train) he was catching just before it set out, and being sent away from the open counter because it wasn't open.

It is - so - easy for those of us used to rail travel to laugh off some of these tribulations but at the present time when I'm trying to attract newcomers to use the train, I'm very much aware that a series of such things will put off those people who are seesawing between "should I?" and "shouldn't I?"    We're no longer in the early days of the FGW (First Great Western) franchise, with 2 car trains running on Cardiff - Portsmouth, when the loss of a passenger didn't matter because there was a pool (of 2.5 more, we were told by a director) more of people who would also be prepared to try it out.

I - thought - I was hardened and immune to some of these issues.  But I was wrong. This evening, I tried to book a sleeper ticket from Melksham to Glasgow on Sunday night, and back next Wednesday. Trains identified as 17:31 Melksham / change Swindon to London, and 21:45 thence to Glasgow.  Return also identified.   Problem, the Sunday journey was only offered it two parts online and I wanted the full journey.

OK - let's buy from FGW.   Phone call; journey details given, and I was offered the 19:05 ... no thanks, I don't want to risk just 40 minutes from Paddington to Euston.   OK ... then offered the 17:31,  but "it's a slower journey" and indeed it was - up to Manchester in the evening, and then on with a very early train to Glasgow, arriving long after the 07:59 of the sleeper.   Eventually, my friend who was helping me did come up with the 17:31, and on from Euston on the 21:45.   But the he spotted a problem ... "that's a sleeper train - I can't book it for you".   Funny he had only just twigged, as I had talked about "the sleeper both ways" from the start of the conversation.   He told me I needed to call the Scotrail sleeper department, and gave me a number starting 0870 ... then another starting 0845 when I asked for a non-premium number.    Total phone call duration - 14 minutes

Phone call to Scotrail.   Had to spell Melksham again.   Again wanted me to risk a scheduled 44 minute connection from Paddington to Euston. And again I persuaded him to patch it for the earlier train - this time via London.   But it wouldn't offer Glasgow from Melksham ... it would offer Edinburgh and change, or Westerton (a Glasgow suburb) at 05:53, and change.   He concluded that the system was all up the swanny because of engineering works, pointing out the long running times.   And he did go though the various options / prices for getting back.

With a full day's work to do in Glasgow, and heavy bags to take, I really don't want to be messing about getting off the Fort William service before first light, into Queen's Street and walk across to where I'm working next door to Central.  And I didn't want to buy an advanced single for my return, in the knowledge that the second single (a) had to be sorted and (b) might end up quite pricey.   Actually he had an advance First class ticket from London for just under 100 pounds late on Sunday afternoon, and I would then have to sort out Melksham to London.  Total phone call duration - another 23 minutes.

I couldn't book because I need to check with my staff member for Sunday afternoon that she'll be around / available from earlier.  Perhaps it'll be easier for me to drive / even to fly, except for all the equipment.    I'm sleeping on it as the staff member is on earlies and I can ask her first thing.   Suggestions gratefully received - is this simply one of those journeys that I should say "doesn't work by train"?   Irritating thing is - it should work!

P.S.  Left off the fact that the buffet car was reported to have just one tired-looking sandwich on offer when it opened!



« Last Edit: March 13, 2014, 21:06:42 by grahame » Logged

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« Reply #1 on: March 13, 2014, 21:28:46 »

But surely we don't want to make the system too easy to use. That might encourage more passengers, leading to demands for more trains, more routes, better stations, higher frequencies - and who'd pay for that?
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grahame
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« Reply #2 on: March 13, 2014, 21:45:32 »

But surely we don't want to make the system too easy to use. That might encourage more passengers, leading to demands for more trains, more routes, better stations, higher frequencies - and who'd pay for that?

Very interestingly, today I listened to a breakdown of the expenditure of Wiltshire Council on various bus support elements, starting with 8.3 million on school transport, 4.2 million on each of special needs transport, concessionary fares and route support, 2.2 million on (?) other special transport [sorry - my notes are hard to follow] and some other smaller sums making up a total of 24.5 million on buses.   And I asked the question "to put that into context, how much money is taken the farebox".   No answer at the meeting (and I appreciate that it may be "commercial in confidence") but does anyone know?   

I ask it here as an element to look at in gauging public transport demand; with more trains of buses, I would somehow feel much happier if the subsidy / public sector indirect spend was the minority ... and indeed if it's very much a minority (for any transport mode), then I would look much more favourably on it.
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« Reply #3 on: March 13, 2014, 23:29:01 »

This evening, I tried to book a sleeper ticket from Melksham to Glasgow on Sunday night, and back next Wednesday. Trains identified as 17:31 Melksham / change Swindon to London, and 21:45 thence to Glasgow. 

Could you not aim for the 20:38 from Melksham to Westbury, change onto the 21:05 to Paddington.  Arrive at 22:38 and depart on the lowland sleeper from Euston at 23:50 and into Glasgow Central at 07:18?

Having said that, while I can get that on the FGW (First Great Western) website, it still won't offer me any fares - although it will for the return journey on Wednesday.  However to get it I have to do it "backwards" and ask to arrive before 08:00 on the Monday, rather than depart after 19:00 on the Sunday....
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« Reply #4 on: March 13, 2014, 23:45:03 »

A single on the lowland sleeper is just over ^100. I would be inclined to book the legs to London separately for simplicity.
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« Reply #5 on: March 14, 2014, 02:14:12 »

But surely we don't want to make the system too easy to use. That might encourage more passengers, leading to demands for more trains, more routes, better stations, higher frequencies - and who'd pay for that?

Very interestingly, today I listened to a breakdown of the expenditure of Wiltshire Council on various bus support elements, starting with 8.3 million on school transport, 4.2 million on each of special needs transport, concessionary fares and route support, 2.2 million on (?) other special transport [sorry - my notes are hard to follow] and some other smaller sums making up a total of 24.5 million on buses.   And I asked the question "to put that into context, how much money is taken the farebox".   No answer at the meeting (and I appreciate that it may be "commercial in confidence") but does anyone know?

Whilst WC (Wiltshire Council (Unitary Authority)) don^t answer that question directly, to be fair to them they do put enough information into the public domain for us to be able to work it out. This is published as part of the consultations that they undertake when proposing changes to the bus services which they support.

I am actually conducting research into this myself at present, and below is a historical selection of such information that I have gathered:

CORSHAM TOWN BUS SERVICE

Quote from: Wiltshire Council
The service was expanded three years ago to run more frequently and to serve Basil Hill, funded by the developers of the Basil Hill MoD site in order to meet planning obligations that required a bus service to be provided to improve non-car access to the site. It was hoped that by the end of the period of developer funding, passenger use would have grown to the point that the expanded service could continue with only a limited ongoing requirement for council subsidy. Unfortunately this has not been the case.

The service in its current form costs around ^200,000 per annum to operate. Of this, around a quarter is recovered from passenger fares, ^80,000 from the developers and the remaining ^80,000 from Council funding. The Basil Hill developer funding ends this year, and the cost to the Council will therefore rise to ^160,000 per annum. As Council funding has also come under increased pressure, this is not affordable. The current operator has also given notice that he wishes to terminate his contract to run the service, and this is expected to lead to a further increase in the cost if the existing timetable is to be retained.

The service currently carries around 80,000 passenger journeys a year. However, when spread over the number of bus journeys operated this equates to on average only 7 passengers per trip. It is clear that the number of passengers does not justify the current level of service, which requires two buses and three drivers to operate.

ZIG ZAG

Quote from: Wiltshire Council
Funding - The whole service is funded by Wiltshire Council, at a cost of ^108,000 per annum.

Usage - Around 28,500 passenger journeys a year are made on the service, equivalent to approximately 95 single journeys per day.

The Zig Zag service as a whole carries around 95 single passenger journeys per day, which is equivalent to an average of only 8 or 9 passengers boarding during the whole length of each individual bus journey.

The largest group of users are residents of Holt and Broughton Gifford travelling to/from Trowbridge and Melksham town centres. There is also a small amount of use of the service to travel from Holt to Bradford on Avon, although this has reduced in recent years. In all, these villages account for nearly a half of all passenger journeys.

Use of the service north of Melksham has also reduced in recent years, largely due to changes to the Bath-Melksham service which now also calls at Whitley. Surveys have indicated that few people now use the service to travel from Shaw, Whitley, Atworth and Gastard to/from Corsham (on average less than one passenger per journey), although there is also some use of the service to travel from Melksham to/from Corsham, and from Corsham, Whitley and Atworth through to Trowbridge and return. There are also still a few passengers using Zig Zag to travel between Atworth, Whitley and Melksham despite the availability of other services.

Use of the service to travel to/from Chippenham is also disappointingly low and is variable, with users appearing to travel irregularly or at best once a week.

In all, nearly two thirds of passenger journeys are made entirely within the Trowbridge ^Bradford ^ Melksham section of the route, and around a quarter entirely within the Melksham^ Corsham ^ Chippenham section of the route. The remainder (around a sixth) travel between the south and north sections of the route.

The cost of providing the Zig Zag service is high because it requires the equivalent of two buses and drivers per day to operate it. With reducing numbers of passengers using the service, the cost to the Council of funding it exceeds the Council^s maximum subsidy guideline of ^3.50 per passenger trip set out in the ^Guidelines for funding of supported services^

SERVICE 20/22

Quote from: Wiltshire Council
Funding - The whole service is funded by Wiltshire Council (with a small contribution from West Berkshire Council) at a cost of ^188,000 per annum. This figure excludes the cost of providing transport for students who are entitled to free or assisted transport.

Usage -  49878 passenger journeys per annum (equivalent to approximately 178 per weekday + 75 per day on Saturdays). These figures do not include students who are entitled to free or assisted transport.

Although some journeys on these services are reasonably well used (particularly on Wednesdays when it is market day in Marlborough), many journeys carry less than 8 passengers with some journeys carrying just one or two people. On Saturdays, even fewer people use the service with loadings less than half of those experienced on weekdays.

The most heavily used journeys are those transporting children to/from St.Johns school at Marlborough with buses regularly carrying more than 30 pupils, half of whom are travelling to/from Hungerford.

At other times most of the passengers are travelling either between between Marlborough and Great Bedwyn (approximately 57%) although surveys suggest that disappointingly very few are using the service to connect with trains at Bedwyn station.

The cost of the service is high because it requires the use of two buses and three drivers per day. Although previously the overall cost to the Council was originally less than the maximum subsidy guideline of ^3.50 per passenger trip set out in the ^Guidelines for funding of supported services^, a reduction in the number of children needing to use this service to travel to/from John O^Gaunt school means that this is no longer the case. Some economies in providing the service could be made by reducing the number of journeys operated.

The level of service provided is generous when compared to the overall use made of it and no longer justifies the use of two vehicles to operate it. The rail link service in particular is poorly used compared to the cost of providing the current number of connecting services.

It should be bourne in mind that in each of the above cases, the relevant consultation put forward proposals aimed at reducing the amount of financial support required. Where these have since been implemented, the relevant figures quoted will have altered accordingly.
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« Reply #6 on: March 14, 2014, 09:18:36 »

Could you not aim for the 20:38 from Melksham to Westbury, change onto the 21:05 to Paddington.  Arrive at 22:38 and depart on the lowland sleeper from Euston at 23:50 and into Glasgow Central at 07:18?

Is there a 2038 this Sunday? Also the Lowland Sleeper departs 2145 on Sundays.

You could purchase an Off Peak Return from Melksham to Glasgow Central (route: ✠Any Permitted) and then phone ScotRail to book berths. Standard Class travel ticket means Standard Class berth with the chance you will be sharing.
« Last Edit: March 14, 2014, 09:26:33 by bignosemac » Logged

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« Reply #7 on: March 14, 2014, 09:24:15 »

We have stumbled across an interesting bug on the FGW (First Great Western) ticket site.

If you ask to arrive in Glasgow before 07:45 on the 17th it actually gives you the train which leaves Melksham on the evening of the 17th and the connection arrives in Glasgow before 07:45 on the 18th!

Didn't spot that when I looked last night.
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grahame
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« Reply #8 on: March 14, 2014, 18:35:10 »

OK ... I've had three more delegates added to my course in Glasgow (giving me more to carry) and have cover for my Sunday shift.  So - avoiding Paddington to Euston with heavy luggage and sleeper uncertainties, I'm going up during the day on Sunday, and back during the day on Thursday.  Have booked ahead and got seat reservations (which of course means an extra trip tomorrow to collect said tickets!)

Another fascinating "feature" ... on the way back, I was offered 08:40 from Glasgow, 15:52 in Melksham, but only on a ^181.40 ticket.   I wondered how much longer it would take on a slower train not via London, and asked for that fare. ^166.70 ... and not much slower  Grin as it arrives in Melksham at 15:52.  Not sure why I was only offered the more expensive fare at first.
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« Reply #9 on: March 14, 2014, 20:28:57 »

OK ... I've had three more delegates added to my course in Glasgow (giving me more to carry) and have cover for my Sunday shift.  So - avoiding Paddington to Euston with heavy luggage and sleeper uncertainties, I'm going up during the day on Sunday, and back during the day on Thursday.  Have booked ahead and got seat reservations (which of course means an extra trip tomorrow to collect said tickets!)

Another fascinating "feature" ... on the way back, I was offered 08:40 from Glasgow, 15:52 in Melksham, but only on a ^181.40 ticket.   I wondered how much longer it would take on a slower train not via London, and asked for that fare. ^166.70 ... and not much slower  Grin as it arrives in Melksham at 15:52.  Not sure why I was only offered the more expensive fare at first.

When I have done courses elsewhere I have couriered the course materials ahead so I pick them up at the venue.  Makes rail travel much easier and the cost was not excessive.
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« Reply #10 on: March 14, 2014, 21:20:02 »

Have you seen grahame's backpack?  Seriously I know what you mean if it was just paperwork and other non fragile items as I have done just that.  However when you start shipping laptops and other items you need a lot of faith in the courier getting them there on time and in the same number of pieces as when you sent it.
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« Reply #11 on: March 14, 2014, 21:25:28 »

Have you seen grahame's backpack?  Seriously I know what you mean if it was just paperwork and other non fragile items as I have done just that.  However when you start shipping laptops and other items you need a lot of faith in the courier getting them there on time and in the same number of pieces as when you sent it.

Ah I was only shipping large volumes of paper.
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