First Bus service changes in and around Bath, Wiltshire & Somerset

[whole diary]

[Lee]

Mind you, there is always the danger of misinformation in situations like this. One woman on the bus this morning was telling anyone who would listen that "it's the (unnamed) council's decision" and "once the council makes its mind up, it won't back down". I did briefly try and debate this point with her, but you know what it's like when you come across someone who is convinced they're right, and just isn't listening...

Let us hope that she didn't get that from First Bus Customer Services, eh?

[grahame]

Mind you, there is always the danger of misinformation in situations like this. One woman on the bus this morning was telling anyone who would listen that "it's the (unnamed) council's decision" and "once the council makes its mind up, it won't back down". I did briefly try and debate this point with her, but you know what it's like when you come across someone who is convinced they're right, and just isn't listening...

Let us hope that she didn't get that from First Bus Customer Services, eh?

There is indeed a rumour around that First Bus offered Wiltshire Council lower fares in exchange for a subsidy of some sort, and that prices have gone up because Wiltshire Council refused to play ball.

As I understand it, service 271 is already a contracted / subsidised service, as are evening buses on route 234, and my understanding of the new fare structure is that ticket costs on these subsidised services are the same as ticket costs on the parallel (272 / daytime 234) services.

First Bus are perfectly free to have made such an offer - nothing illegal in them doing so if they did.   Very naughty (in my view), however, as I think that for Wiltshire Council to have accepted without going out for contract on the services would have been breaking the rules, even if they had been tempted.   I have no way of knowing if the rumour is true ... of course, if someone at First Bus has been telling customers about such an offer ...

[Lee]

A very swift, and very comprehensive denial:

No truth in it whatsoever.

By law we cannot subsidise fares on commercial bus services.  No conversation has been held with First on this matter.

[grahame]

I'm probably going to Radstock tomorrow evening to observe a meeting at the Methodist Hall there that starts at 19:30, so ideally I would arrive at around 19:00 and leave back at 21:30

First Bus do a 16:25 Melksham (my starting point) to Bath service on route 272, getting to Bath at 17:18, and then I can see an onward bus at 18:15 on route 173 to Radstock getting there at 18:44

Returning, as far as I can see the last First (!!) bus into Bath is a 178 at 20:59, getting there at 21:25 and in exceedingly good time for the 23:20 bus (route 271) to Melksham, arriving back at 00:05

There's a Wessex Connect service 178 at 21:33, and another at 22:33, getting to Bath at 21:56 and 22:56, both of which connect with the Melksham bus.

Questions

a) For the initial routing, I think I just need a 7.00 Freedom of West of England ticket.  Or do I need to buy something extra because I'm finishing my journey early next morning?

b) What fare / ticket do I need if use the Wessex Connect 178 - as it's a council subsidised service, does my First Freedom ticket let me use it? (Asking that because I know that Faresaver returns are valid on SUBSIDISED competing services on the same route from Bath to Wiltshire).

c) Travelline http://www.travelinesw.com , Transport Direct http://www.transportdirect.info and Connecting Wiltshire http://www.connectingwiltshire.co.uk all offer me a variety of alternatives to the above, offering me quicker routes but ones which I think are going to be much more expensive.   How do I get these sites to give me prices, and to optimise my journey by price? 

d) Am I the only one who wants to know prices as well as times when I choose my bus travel route?

[Phil]

d) Am I the only one who wants to know prices as well as times when I choose my bus travel route?

First and only person in the history of bus travel ever, judging by the near universal lack of provision of pricing information across the board...

[LiskeardRich]

The only ticketing information I can find is that of "Rover" tickets.

I was shocked a return from Redruth to Falmouth is ^7.50, a journey of 8-9 miles each way.

A Cornwall Day ticket is ^10 which is valid the whole of Cornwall all day.

No wonder they hide their ticket prices.

The best value ticket I found was the Cymru Clipper Day ticket at ^5, which was incredible value to get me from Porthcawl to Cardiff and back recently.

[Lee]

Noticeable emptying of First buses reported since new fare structure came into effect, particularly on routes such as 231 and 234 where alternatives exist. Faresaver are an obvious beneficiary, see news release on their continued issuing of return tickets - http://www.faresaver.co.uk/newsitem.php?i=9462622

Also noticeable is a "blind eye" approach being adopted by a number of First Bus drivers to over-travelling. For example Chippenham town centre-Valley Road/Furzehill in Corsham is ^3.50 adult single, but to Kings Avenue or Newlands Road is only ^2.50 - passengers have a natural habit of asking for "Corsham", leading to them getting charged the lower fare and being allowed to end their journey in the next section.

One bus driver last night on the 234 took it a step further, specifically advising passengers from Melksham to ask for Rowden Hill and then stay on the bus until Chippenham Bus Station, which would reduce their single fare from ^3.50 to ^2.50.

I should end by saying that my driver on the 231 this morning is asking everyone exactly where they are going, and charging accordingly - a perfectly proper approach.

[grahame]

I've just called First's enquiry line to check on point (a) and enquired about travelling back into tomorrow morning. Initially I was told that I needed to buy another ticket, but when I expressed unhappiness at that I was told my West of England day ticket should be OK until 2 or possibly 4 a.m.   On asking where that information's available on line, I was told that it probably isn't - it's in the driver's manual ... great fun trying to work out terms and conditions on tickets when only the company and its staff have access to them, and even the customer enquiry team is unsure.   Makes train fares look easy!

As an aside discussion, it was confirmed that the senior bus passes are not valid on the last Bath to Melksham bus - "that's nothing to do with us - it's a council decision".   Love the buck-passing game!

[LiskeardRich]

I've just called First's enquiry line to check on point (a) and enquired about travelling back into tomorrow morning. Initially I was told that I needed to buy another ticket, but when I expressed unhappiness at that I was told my West of England day ticket should be OK until 2 or possibly 4 a.m.   On asking where that information's available on line, I was told that it probably isn't - it's in the driver's manual ... great fun trying to work out terms and conditions on tickets when only the company and its staff have access to them, and even the customer enquiry team is unsure.   Makes train fares look easy!

As an aside discussion, it was confirmed that the senior bus passes are not valid on the last Bath to Melksham bus - "that's nothing to do with us - it's a council decision".   Love the buck-passing game!

Online it states the day ticket is valid until midnight.

T+Cs not in public availability would constitute an unfair contract from a legal point of view

[grahame]

Online it states the day ticket is valid until midnight.

Ah ... do you have a link to that?

[LiskeardRich]

Online it states the day ticket is valid until midnight.

Ah ... do you have a link to that?

I have clicked on various conditions of carriage and its opens PDF, which I don't know how to link. Here is a copy and paste of the T+Cs I can find. Spot the conflicting T+Cs here:

Terms and Conditions
FirstDay tickets are valid until midnight on the day of purchase.
FirstDayOut and Half-Fare MetroDay are only available to young people aged 11-18 on production of a valid Young Person's or Scholar's photocard. You must show your photocard when you buy and use your ticket. Children aged under 11 do not need a photocard.
When using FirstDay Family & Friends all customers travelling on the same ticket must board the bus together
Not valid on event or other special services.

Information correct at Sunday 27 April 2014.

But further on in the T+Cs a little bit of conflicting information

5. Tickets   5.01  Tickets may be used on until the end of service on the day of issue only but no later than 4am on the following day after issue. Return journeys may be excluded on certain journeys or routes where specified.

[grahame]

Good journey out ... I hadn't checked the secondary Bath to Radstock route (184) and got a good connection so time to look around. 

Answer to (b) ...

Wessex Connect's contract with BaNES requires them to accept the return half of First's returns on their evening subsidised 178 services.   But as there are now no return tickets from First, they are not required (and don't) accept the Freedom of West of England ticket which you have to buy in place of a return.   Some unhappy chap pies about that little gem!

Meeting was http://www.todd4nesomerset.com/bus_meeting1

Report on my trip at http://www.wellho.net/mouth/4286_Reaction-in-Radstock-to-new-First-bus-prices.html

Technical comments from meeting in "Frequent Posters" at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14250.0 (some meeting comments that I've reported are - err - questionable so it's not in public)

[Lee]

Labour activists call Radstock public meeting over fare changes for Friday 11 July 2014 (1930 at Methodist Church) - http://www.somersetguardian.co.uk/Debate-bus-fare-rises/story-21321849-detail/story.html

grahame went to the Radstock meeting last night - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14243.msg157228#msg157228

There is also a petition someone has set up calling for return tickets to be reinstated - http://busreturns.epetitions.net/

Any chance of a merge of the public (as opposed to the Frequent Poster) topic threads?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks for the suggestion, Lee: now done. 

I've retained the original headings in the individual posts, purely in the interests of complete clarity. 

[Alan Pettitt]

d) Am I the only one who wants to know prices as well as times when I choose my bus travel route?

First Bus Android phone app does give the single fare for your journey in the planner (and now that's all you need!) but I can't find anything similar on the desktop site.