Air Competition for FGW

[whole diary]

[trainer]

According to the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page), at 8am today Flybe announced that it is to begin direct flights between Exeter and London City Airport.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27122754

In an interview on the 'Today' programme this morning, Simon Calder of the Independent was quoting prices as low as ^23 single and flight times considerably shorter than the train.  As yet I can't find a written source for details, but no doubt this will emerge over the coming days.

[paul7575]

I wonder what the equivalent 'Anytime air fare' will be?   The one that allows you to walk into London City airport without booking and still allows travel on the next random flight?

Paul

[Umberleigh]

Just picked up on this.

I did wonder if Exeter was a mistake, and they (BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)) meant Newquay? However, I had always wondered why they didn't operate Exeter - London, as I imagine a lot of customers would drive up from Cornwall and North & West Devon, in the same way they do for Tivvy Parkway.

[Red Squirrel]

According to the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page), at 8am today Flybe announced that it is to begin direct flights between Exeter and London City Airport.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-27122754

In an interview on the 'Today' programme this morning, Simon Calder of the Independent was quoting prices as low as ^23 single and flight times considerably shorter than the train.  As yet I can't find a written source for details, but no doubt this will emerge over the coming days.

Missed the 'Today' programme, but I'm intrigued to know why they spoke to Simon Calder rather than, say for example, someone from Flybe? That'll be the same Simon Calder who 'mischieviously'* claimed that the bus service laid on whilst Dawlish was repaired was quicker than the train...

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=13782.0

* according to bobm

[trainer]

Red Squirrel:  I'm guessing they spoke to Calder because he was nearest the phone when they needed someone within the hour. He is the first port of call, it seems, on all travel matters for the Beeb.  I think you can catch 'Today' on iPlayer.  It was near the end of the programme.

No, Umberleigh, it's definitely Exeter.

[stuving]

These new routes are now in the on-line booking engine, with this text (at http://www.flybe.com/london-city/):

Fly direct to the heart of the City on our new routes from Inverness, Exeter, Belfast City, Edinburgh and Dublin to London City Airport.

Be in a taxi or on the DRL within 15 minutes of landing in the centre of London. With daily flights in and out of the city starting at just ^34.99 one way you can easily complete your days^ work and be home in plenty of time for dinner with the family. Book now for travel from 27th October 2014.
 
London City to Exeter   from ^34.99 one way
Belfast to London City   from ^39.99 one way
Inverness to London City   from ^49.99 one way
Edinburgh to London City   from ^49.99 one way
Dublin to London City   from ^49.99 one way

What that quoted minimum fare means in reality is as unclear as it always is - on a quick look I can see some return legs at ^23.99, but no outward ones as low as ^34.99.

[Southern Stag]

In an interview on the 'Today' programme this morning, Simon Calder of the Independent was quoting prices as low as ^23 single and flight times considerably shorter than the train.  As yet I can't find a written source for details, but no doubt this will emerge over the coming days.

From looking at the flybe booking engine flight times will be 1h20m Exeter-London, 1h15m London-Exeter. That compares favourably with the train you look at the times Exeter St Davids-London Paddington, where you are looking at 2hr10m minimum but if you compare doorstep-workplace I can't imagine the flight will compare so favourably. Perhaps flying might work out slightly quicker if you're going to Canary Wharf.

[Super Guard]

While the pricing looks good, a realistic day return is 08:00 arrival in London City (fine), the 2 returns are 16:40 (probably too early?) or 20:30 (probably too late?).

[TaplowGreen]

Its a step in the right direction and London City is an excellent airport with short check in times....I remember when Air SouthWest were still flying from City into Plymouth I could leave my office in Southwark and be back at Roborough within 2 hours .

If the powers that be have any sense, something will be done about Plymouth Airport, it should never have been allowed to close in the first place, as was starkly brought into relief during the recent rail chaos.

It'll certainly be a very strong option to Exeter for those who valued the peace & quiet of 1st class travel on the train which is shortly to be curtailed by the reduction of 1st class accommodation.....may make FGW^▸ (First Great Western) up their game, they could do with some competition!

[Umberleigh]

Now in the Exeter Express & Echo:


http://www.exeterexpressandecho.co.uk/Exeter-business-council-leaders-welcome-new-Flybe/story-20999585-detail/story.html

Personally, I think it's good for FGW^▸ (First Great Western) to have competition on this route. There is an argument that the 1st class offering is poor compared with, say Virgin Trains, and it should also prevent any reduction in the quality of what is already offered.

Whilst it's true that there isn't much difference City centre to City centre, most business travellers drive into Exeter from outside anyway. At the end of the day, Flybe can only offer a fraction of the seats that FGW can, but it does provide an alternative when the line is flooded.

Incidentally, if Flybe win the Newquay four year, subsidised contract, will this service start and terminate at Newquay as per the old Plymouth -Newquay- Gatwick service?

[trainer]

I have to admit I also wondered if a reduction in First Class quality at peak times with peak fares would have an effect on the decisions regarding travel of business people going to the City.

[Umberleigh]

I have to admit I also wondered if a reduction in First Class quality at peak times with peak fares would have an effect on the decisions regarding travel of business people going to the City.

It will for this customer. I am not happy with the changes to First Class, as I consider having a bit of space to myself as part of the premium I pay. If I can no longer do this, then I may as well get there in half the time, and for possibly half the price.

[LiskeardRich]

Minimum check in at Exeter airport is 30 mins before departure for domestic, plus the extra time to potentially travel out to the airport, stagecoach buses take 25 mins from City centre to airport. So add probably an hour to flight times if you have to commute out from near the city, and the flight time is not competitive unless savings are made by London City being better located than paddington at the other end.

[Chris from Nailsea]

... Simon Calder of the Independent was quoting prices as low as ^23 single and flight times considerably shorter than the train.  As yet I can't find a written source for details, but no doubt this will emerge over the coming days.

From The Independent:

Flybe starts autumn fares war on domestic travel ^ that could make planes cheaper than trains

Flight from London to Exeter could cost as little as ^23 ^ which is up to ^95 cheaper than the rail fare

SIMON CALDER  Wednesday 23 April 2014

Stay in bed in Devon an hour longer, arrive in London 40 minutes earlier and save ^95 on the train fare - that is the offer to the citizens of Exeter by Britain's biggest regional airline.

Flybe has signalled an autumn fares war on domestic travel, against both rival airlines and the train operator First Great Western. The airline, which is based in Exeter, has launched a new network of flights connecting cities in Britain and Ireland with London City airport (LCY).

Each weekday from 27 October, 30 flights will fly to or from the Docklands airport. Flybe will launch four daily flights to Edinburgh and Dublin, competing with British Airways and CityJet respectively.

There are currently no air links covering the 150-mile distance between Exeter and London, but Flybe claims its timings ^ with a departure at 6.40am, arriving in the capital at 8am ^ will entice business travellers from First Great Western. Advance tickets on the first flight from Exeter suggest a fare as low as ^23, compared with ^118 for an Anytime ticket on the first train of the day ^ on which Advance fares are difficult to find.

Flybe is also re-launching services to London City from Belfast (three times a day) and Inverness (twice daily). All flights come with a timekeeping promise: ^If you arrive more than 60 minutes late, due to reasons within our control, we^ll give you a ^60 flight credit.^

[Bob_Blakey]

I will give the Exeter-London City service 12 months before either major schedule changes, more than likely withdrawal of the mid-afternoon flights, or even complete cessation.
It is, I think, a long established transport planning principle (please don't ask me to quote sources) that for domestic travel train generally wins over 'plane on distances up to around 250 miles.
Exeter Airport is, as has been mentioned previously, not particularly easy to get to except by car, with a minimum day parking rate of ^15.30, or taxi which when I made the journey several years ago attracted a flat fare of ^20 from anywhere within the Exeter city administrative area. The Flybe opening offer day return price is ^85 near as makes no difference. Whatever else you make think about them, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are not stupid and I have no doubt that with this much advance notice they will be able to organise a very competitive fare option.
I, too, remain unconvinced that many business travellers from this neck of the woods will want or need to end up in the middle of a largely finance-based commercial centre. Because of that I don't entirely accept the supposed time advantages of flying this route when many potential users will actually need to get to central London.
(This may very well be a slightly clouded view; I have only ever flown four sectors with Flybe - two were more or less on time, the others incurred delays of 7 and 5 hours!)