Two-coach Oxford-London fast train

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

Witnessed the 08:55 from Oxford as a 3-Car Turbo today.  Just about enough space for everyone from Oxford, but standees from Reading (where it is the first fast train to depart for some time) and sardine like after Slough.  Five or six carriages needed now over the summer methinks!

[a-driver]

As of tomorrow (21/07/14) FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are hiring a 165 in from Chiltern.  It will be confined to just the Basingstoke and Greenford services (due to their 75mph top speed) but this releases an extra set for strengthening other services.  FGW have been after additional units for a long while now, it was rumoured at one point they would hire in a 158 for the Windsor branch which never materialised (unfortunately!)

[Busboy W1]

Yep 150002 has gone down Exeter to strengthen the West fleet. Still loco hauled would be much preferred.

[Btline]

Completely unacceptable. All Oxford fasts should be an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) - especially those from the Cotswold line.

[JayMac]

Where shall me magic up these HST^▸ (High Speed Train) sets from?

[Busboy W1]

A train is a train. Remember HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) take longer to accelerate than Turbos and even 180s. As the case for timings on a certain train that's now 180 operated vice HST. This service has been speeded up by 30mins.

Completely unacceptable. All Oxford fasts should be an HST - especially those from the Cotswold line.

[Btline]

On Sundays there should be plenty available for the Cotswold line including those maintenance.

I have been on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) that did London to Oxford in 50 minutes. Amazing what can happen when the drivers actually drive at 125 mph...

180s only have the same number of seats as a Turbo. So 2 coupled together would be fine if they were available, but not 1.

You may moan at my complaints, but if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't act their act sorted, they're going to lose a lot of passenger to Chiltern next year!

[Chris from Nailsea]

You may moan at my complaints, but if FGW^▸ (First Great Western) don't act their act sorted, they're going to lose a lot of passenger to Chiltern next year!

Hmm. You've rather lost me on that one, Btline.

[Btline]

It's true. Once the competition starts, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will need to up their gain on this service - currently treated as a Cinderella service.

The Chiltern service will only take 6 minutes longer (and be cheaper, more reliable, more comfortable, etc).

For passengers using parkway, it will quick on Chiltern.

[JayMac]

It'll only be cheaper from Oxford if Chiltern decide, and are allowed, to offer 'via High Wycombe' fares. Expect the incumbent owner of the Oxford - London fares flow to raise objections. Expect the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to study the revenue implications carefully.

If allowed, expect the incumbent owner of the flow to look at possible ways to match or beat Chiltern's offer. Good news all round for passengers if that happens.

And will Chiltern's DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) service really be just 6 minutes slower versus a regular EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) service interspersed with IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) sets to Paddington?

[Busboy W1]

It's true. Once the competition starts, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) will need to up their gain on this service - currently treated as a Cinderella service.

The Chiltern service will only take 6 minutes longer (and be cheaper, more reliable, more comfortable, etc).

For passengers using parkway, it will quick on Chiltern.

Now you've lost me too !! FGW Already have competition from Oxford with the coach services along the motorway. Not sure unless your involved with the fares structuring how the Chiltern service will be cheaper :?  

[grahame]

Current comparable(isn) train fares

Bicester North to Marylebone
115.10 7 day season
56.20 Anytime Period (Carnet 12, 562.00))
27.50 Off Peak

Oxford to Paddington
119.60 7 day season
58.00 Anytime Day (Carnet 10, 522.00)
26.70 Off Peak period
24.20 Off Peak Day

I don't see scope for cheap trains Oxford to Marylebone via Wycombe, unless something dramatic were to be done

Edit to add

Swindon to Paddington
227.70 7 day season
121.00 Anytime period return
55.00 Offpeak period return
44.00 Super off-peak period return

Not quite comparing like for like
London to Oxford - about 60 miles
London to Bicester - about 60 miles
London to Swindon - about 80 miles

[ellendune]

It'll only be cheaper from Oxford if Chiltern decide, and are allowed, to offer 'via High Wycombe' fares. Expect the incumbent owner of the Oxford - London fares flow to raise objections. Expect the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) to study the revenue implications carefully.

If allowed, expect the incumbent owner of the flow to look at possible ways to match or beat Chiltern's offer. Good news all round for passengers if that happens.

And will Chiltern's DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) service really be just 6 minutes slower versus a regular EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) service interspersed with IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) sets to Paddington?

Noting that Oxford passengers already pay less (including less per mile) than Swindon Passengers so we would be very miffed if that difference opened up still further!

[ChrisB]

Current comparable(isn) train fares

Bicester North to Marylebone
115.10 7 day season
56.20 Anytime Period (Carnet 12, 562.00))
27.50 Off Peak

Oxford to Paddington
119.60 7 day season
58.00 Anytime Day (Carnet 10, 522.00)
26.70 Off Peak period
24.20 Off Peak Day

I don't see scope for cheap trains Oxford to Marylebone via Wycombe, unless something dramatic were to be done

Edit to add

Swindon to Paddington
227.70 7 day season
121.00 Anytime period return
55.00 Offpeak period return
44.00 Super off-peak period return

Not quite comparing like for like
London to Oxford - about 60 miles
London to Bicester - about 60 miles
London to Swindon - about 80 miles

Chiltern are currently in the process of equalising the Bicester North fares with Bicester Town fares - something that's meaning North fares rising by the max RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))++% over the last two years & probably the next one or two too.

A difficult one for Chiltern. Currently Town (BIT) fares are for a trip via Oxford - hence they are higher than Oxford's. BUT come the project completion, BIT fares to London would be to Marylebone (MYB^▸ (London (Marylebone))), thus shorter distance/time than Oxford. Methinks the equalisation ought to be with North fares, but Chiltern don't see anything but the additional profit unfortunately, and the argument failed.

Bicester Stations will then become a fare group, allowing travel to MYB from either station on the same ticket. I'm guessing that as this will be less than the Oxford fare, the Routing Guide will also be changed to prevent a Bicester Stations ticket being valid via Oxford, and thus London tickets can then only be to MYB.

I think a Chiltern-only fare will be launched at Oxford to London MYB only, while the Any Permitted will be valid both ways to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) or MYB.

What will be interesting is the Oxford Parkway ticket. A Chiltern station, so they can only set a Any Permitted fare to London. Will it be valid via Oxford?....

And will Chiltern's DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) service really be just 6 minutes slower versus a regular EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) service interspersed with IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) sets to Paddington?

I think it'll have to be - Chiltern's access agreement specifies a maximum journey time of 66 minutes. I can't see FGW^▸ (First Great Western) wanting to be any slower than now...but they should gain a couple of minutes in the IEP timetable - but the difference (especially when added to the fact that PAD is further out of London than MYB) is tiny. It may be that Chiltern is swamped to begin with...as all commuters have Any Permitted seasons allowing use of Chiltern from Day 1 of their Oxford service.

Noting that Oxford passengers already pay less (including less per mile) than Swindon Passengers so we would be very miffed if that difference opened up still further!

Oxford fares are the same as Didcot fares. Banbury fares (valid via Oxford & thus available currently valid to PAD or MYB) are preventing the operator from separating the Didcot & Oxford fares by raising the Oxford fares above the Didcot fares. It could get very messy when/if Chiltern launch ther own Oxford fare.

[ellendune]

Oxford fares are the same as Didcot fares. Banbury fares (valid via Oxford & thus available currently valid to PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) or MYB^▸ (London (Marylebone))) are preventing the operator from separating the Didcot & Oxford fares by raising the Oxford fares above the Didcot fares.

Can someone explain this to me it does not make any sense at all.