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Timmer
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« on: January 16, 2008, 07:16:25 » |
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According to the MTLS▸ website, it was agreed at the meeting held in Bath last night that another 'fare strike' will take place on January 28th. More info to come in a press release today: http://mtls.org.uk/node/12 |
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Lee
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« Reply #1 on: January 16, 2008, 10:07:35 » |
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« Last Edit: January 16, 2008, 11:58:44 by Lee Fletcher »
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dog box
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« Reply #2 on: January 16, 2008, 18:34:38 » |
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Well lets hope FGW▸ take a tough line and bring in the Revenue Potection Staff,
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All postings reflect my own personal views and opinions and are not intended to be, nor should be taken as official statements of first great western or first group policy
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gpn01
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« Reply #3 on: January 17, 2008, 09:10:39 » |
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To show my support will I need to hide my annual season ticket for the day ?  |
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Tim
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« Reply #4 on: January 17, 2008, 09:40:54 » |
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Well lets hope FGW▸ take a tough line and bring in the Revenue Potection Staff,
That would only get FGW even more bad press. As I have said before (and this isn't a personal comment on you, Dogbox, I have no idea of your union affiliation and views), I think it slightly hypocrytical of rail staff to condemn MTLS▸ 's strike as if it was the worst crime in the world when they work in an industry that must be one of the most militant and strike-prone in the country. RMT▸ members have a contract to work but when they feel treated badly they consider it justified to break that contract and strike. FGW passengers have a contract with FGW to pay for their travel but when they feel that they have been treated badly (and by any measure they are treated badly) they consider it justified to break that contract for a day. I know this is a gross simplification and there are legal and factual differences between the two situations but I do think that their is some kind of moral equivalence. From a personal point of view, anti-MTLS comments from rail staff (and I would include Dogbox in this - sorry) gives me a negative impression of you all. It makes me and perhaps others less sypathetic of your own battles with FGW, less likely to view your mistakes sympathetcially, more likely to moan about you and complain to FGW and less likely to give praise where it is due. Basically, it gives me the impression that you are all heartless jobsworths. I know that that isn't true, but it is the impression you give when I read the "I hope they all get caught and sent down" comments on this forum. I know that lots of FGW staff feel that they don't get the respect that they deserve from the public (and they would be correct in such a view) but they must realise that respect goes both ways and lack of sympathy for the long suffering passenger will only rebound as lack of sympathy for the long suffering staff. BTW▸ , I won't be taking part in the strike myself but I do admire the MTLS folk who sacrifice their own time to organise it and who run the risk of prosecution to make a political point. |
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grahame
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« Reply #5 on: January 17, 2008, 11:14:08 » |
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I've said this before (so I know there are one or two of you who will be less than happy for "harping on") but I feel it's important to put something of an official view from this site with regard to support or otherwise for a MTLS▸ fare strike.
Whilst we admire (with a degree of jealousy, it must be said) the publicity achieved for the particular causes being promoted, we do not at this site have appropriate legal advise to confirm to us that the action is in fact legal - in fact we have heard arguments otherwise - and so we cannot provide support.
On a much more subjective line, I personally question the effect "on the ground" and on the staff of a fare strike - it does worry me and I would much, much rather be working with everyone than employing tactics which raise tension. Having said which, any suggestion of a fare strike on my own local line - The TransWilts - would be pretty academic. FGW▸ have withdrawn ALL useful trains.. And I wonder if they might have provided something rather better had we used some stronger tactics in the past
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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Shazz
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« Reply #7 on: January 17, 2008, 12:02:02 » |
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Well lets hope FGW▸ take a tough line and bring in the Revenue Potection Staff,
That would only get FGW even more bad press. Wrong, It'll give MTLS▸ bad press, as they actively break the law to try and get there point across. Which will end up making there opinions even less credible than they currently arn't. I'd personally applaud FGW for enforcing the law, and making sure the people breaking it get heavily fined. |
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Lee
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« Reply #8 on: January 17, 2008, 12:11:36 » |
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Well lets hope FGW▸ take a tough line and bring in the Revenue Potection Staff,
That would only get FGW even more bad press. Wrong, It'll give MTLS▸ bad press, as they actively break the law to try and get there point across. Which will end up making there opinions even less credible than they currently arn't. I'd personally applaud FGW for enforcing the law, and making sure the people breaking it get heavily fined. grahame has rightly pointed out the official Coffee Shop site view, and in line with our policy of balance, here is a view from the MTLS forum : MTLS is concerned about raising the awareness of the poor (understatement) performance of FGW. They are asking people to participate in a protest dubbed a fare strike. We will be handing out alternative tickets and urging passengers to show these rather than their valid tickets. The recipient will know they are not valid for journeys. How they access/exit the platform is a decision to be made by the individual. This is not one that MTLS can make or should make for them. If we called it a "train protest" or something else as twee, then it would not have the same impact with the media, would it?
If you are worried about being prosecuted, then by all means, show your valid ticket. |
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Shazz
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« Reply #9 on: January 17, 2008, 12:51:52 » |
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...yes i know, and i've post my own personal view on it...
problem?
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12hoursunday
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« Reply #10 on: January 17, 2008, 13:41:02 » |
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RMT▸ members have a contract to work but when they feel treated badly they consider it justified to break that contract and strike. FGW▸ passengers have a contract with FGW to pay for their travel but when they feel that they have been treated badly (and by any measure they are treated badly) they consider it justified to break that contract for a day. I know this is a gross simplification and there are legal and factual differences between the two situations but I do think that their is some kind of moral equivalence.
I know that lots of FGW staff feel that they don't get the respect that they deserve from the public (and they would be correct in such a view) but they must realise that respect goes both ways and lack of sympathy for the long suffering passenger will only rebound as lack of sympathy for the long suffering staff.
When the RMT and ASLEF» as well for that matter decide to have industrial action including the complete withdrawal of all labour they do it within the confine of the law. Not buying a ticket I am sorry to say is against the law so Tim me old China your argument don't hold any water! |
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Tim
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« Reply #11 on: January 17, 2008, 15:03:27 » |
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RMT▸ members have a contract to work but when they feel treated badly they consider it justified to break that contract and strike. FGW▸ passengers have a contract with FGW to pay for their travel but when they feel that they have been treated badly (and by any measure they are treated badly) they consider it justified to break that contract for a day. I know this is a gross simplification and there are legal and factual differences between the two situations but I do think that their is some kind of moral equivalence.
I know that lots of FGW staff feel that they don't get the respect that they deserve from the public (and they would be correct in such a view) but they must realise that respect goes both ways and lack of sympathy for the long suffering passenger will only rebound as lack of sympathy for the long suffering staff.
When the RMT and ASLEF» as well for that matter decide to have industrial action including the complete withdrawal of all labour they do it within the confine of the law. Not buying a ticket I am sorry to say is against the law so Tim me old China your argument don't hold any water! You are of course absolutely right from a legal point of view, but there have of course been labour strikes in the past and in the present in some countries that have been illegal but morally justified (and I would venture that not every rail strike in the history of the RMT and ASLEF has been completely legal - just a guess, but I'd put money on it). Everyone is responsible for their own actions and if MTLS▸ members break the law then of course they must be prepared to live with the consequences of a potential fine and criminal record. Anyway whatever the legal arguements, I still think it is a tactical error for ordinary Railwaymen and women to be too anti-MTLS and their actions because it annoys the very people (your regular customers) whos support you might need when you are fighting your own battles with FGW, and annoyed and angry passengers are of course much less pleasant to deal with. If FGW staff take a "prosecute every MTLS striker" line, aren't your passengers more likely to take a "sack the lot of them" line when it comes to *your* next strike. Of course you may argue that equating the two types of strikes is unfare (and I think that you would be right), but that is kind of irrelevent because some of the passengers will make the connection (the papers have already made the connection and are mentioning the RMT and MTLS strikes in the same sentence) Whilst I agree that the fare strike would be illegal, I have to admit that some of the very anti-MTLS comments on this forum (especially the anti-Tony Ambrose personal attacks that appeared before Xmas) have caused me to be less sympathetic towards FGW staff than I previously was (sorry, but there you are). Its not the comments that travelling without a ticket is illegal and risks prosecution and/or penalty fares that bothers me it is the barely suppressed glee in catching the fare strikers and throwing the book at them that has come accross in some comments that that worries me. I am not asking FGW staff to ignore law breaking (I expect that on the day you will get your orders as to what to do from Swindon and have very little decretion in your actions anyway) , I am just pointing out that treating your regular customers sympathetically and not slagging them off in public forums might be in your own best long term interests. |
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Lee
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« Reply #12 on: January 17, 2008, 15:50:09 » |
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...yes i know, and i've post my own personal view on it...
problem?
Not at all. I felt that the debate didnt reflect the fact that MTLS▸ are asking fare strike participents to decide for themselves whether or not to break the law. See quote below : Wrong, It'll give MTLS bad press, as they actively break the law to try and get there point across. That doesnt mean that I am saying that you arent perfectly entitled to express your own view as part of that debate. I am not trying to get at you, and nobody (least of all me) can fail to notice the opposition to MTLS present among members. I just want to see both sides of the story expressed. By the way, how about this for a fare-dodging row? (link below.) http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=231771&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231774&contentPK=19577477&folderPk=108867&pNodeId=231888 |
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« Last Edit: January 17, 2008, 17:26:46 by Lee Fletcher »
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vacman
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« Reply #13 on: January 17, 2008, 18:50:29 » |
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Well Tim, I think you know my view, I sincerely hope anyone caught without a valid ticket gets the book thrown at them, sorry, but there are enough tw*ts out there without these busybodies, all thats going to happen is the people who don't normally pay will jump on the band wagon and get these fake tickets and think that it is acceptable not to pay, roll on the 28th, i'll have my notebook ready and report anyone I catch to the RPI▸ 's!
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Shazz
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« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2008, 19:08:30 » |
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Not at all. I felt that the debate didnt reflect the fact that MTLS▸ are asking fare strike participents to decide for themselves whether or not to break the law. See quote below :
Yes, but they're encourageing people to break it. so the "they" break the law part stands. |
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