Bristol-Oxford Direct Service

[whole diary]

[tomL]

kind of related...But it seems that the fastest connection from Swindon to Oxford at the moment is the 0728 from Swindon and changing at Didcot Parkway for the Great Malvern service. Ironically it seems like luck that both of these trains stop at Didcot Parkway. It is however the minimum connection time so it can easily be missed.

TL;DR: It would be great to have a more direct service. 

[81F]

Stagecoach have recently added more peak journeys on their 66 Swindon-Oxford route, so frequency is now "up to every 20 minutes". Basically every 30 mins throughout the day, journey time 75-80 minutes. The railway is still quicker, but involves a change at Didcot and is more expensive. The buses are all "Stagecoach Gold" and very comfortable as buses go. And the buses get closer to the city centre in Oxford at Gloucester Green.

[IndustryInsider]

Stagecoach have recently added more peak journeys on their 66 Swindon-Oxford route, so frequency is now "up to every 20 minutes". Basically every 30 mins throughout the day, journey time 75-80 minutes. The railway is still quicker, but involves a change at Didcot and is more expensive. The buses are all "Stagecoach Gold" and very comfortable as buses go. And the buses get closer to the city centre in Oxford at Gloucester Green.

Agreed that the Stagecoach service is pretty good, and the buses are very comfortable, but the A420 can be a bit of a menace on its long single carriageway sections.  If you're commuting on a 9-5 then the journey times are nearer the 85-90 minute mark which is probably enough to put most folks off and compares very poorly with the potential under 30 minute journey time via a direct non-stop train, or 35 minutes with a stop at Didcot.  That said, the current situation, where a missed connection at Didcot can easily mean an extra 30 minutes on your journey, is also very off-putting for potential commuters, hence why a return to direct trains would be very desirable.

[didcotdean]

The stopping pattern at Didcot needs a bit of a look at in general and hopefully the set of new / additional / improved / electric services can improve the situation for everyone. Connections though at the moment seem a minor consideration and if anything have worsened in recent years, despite the increase in stops in London services but lack of capacity is also an issue. Doesn't help that typically offpeak there are 2-3 of these clustered in a 20 minute period, with none for the rest of the hour. This balances things out around the various end points westwards, but has unfortunate side effects.

[TonyK]

From what I recall, most of the trains called at Didcot Parkway and then reversed.  A few did use the curve, avoiding the station and this was the main reason for the timing of the service being discontinued.   The "trial" service was introduced in June 1998 as a joint venture between Thames Trains and FGW^▸ (First Great Western), using TT's Turbo units.  Had it lasted 5 years, i.e. beyond June 2003, it would have become "permanent" and would have needed to go through the official closure procedure, being the only scheduled passenger service to use that short stretch of line at Didcot.  So, the last through train ran on Saturday 17th May 2003.  I believe that some of the trains ran to/from Bicester Town.

Exactly right - thanks for the memory prompt. There was no suggestion that the service wasn't viable, even if if it wsn't heavily promoted. As well as Oxford, as others have pointed out, it provided an extra service Bristol - Bath - Chippenham - Swindon. The prospect of going through the full withdrawal of service procedure was clearly a little too daunting.

[ellendune]

If it had continued there would have been even fewer Turbos for the growth in demand further East.

[grahame]

If it had continued there would have been even fewer Turbos for the growth in demand further East.

Yes ... but then there may have been more / earlier Adelantes brought back - or perhaps they never would have gone.  The whole cascade thing is a series of moves and the ultimate might have been ... who knows?

[Timmer]

If I remember rightly the Bristol to Oxford service started when the Bristol to London service still had gaps in the half hourly service which this service nicely filled in. As time went by these gaps were filled in by HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to/from London which made the Bristol to Oxford service less viable when you had a half hourly HST service between Bristol/Bath and Chippenham & Swindon.

I think this was one if the reasons given for ending the service between Bristol and Oxford.

[grahame]

I think this was one if the reasons given for ending the service between Bristol and Oxford.

There seem to be more reasons given than I have had hot dinners this week 

See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14679.msg162470#msg162470 - that's in our "Rumour Mill" - where I have listed the reasons that I've come across.

We should learn from that past / take a careful look at the reasons BUT plan for the future.  To me, the service as proposed looks like it's an excellent idea.  Immediately:
* Provides the extra Bristol - Bath services for Metro West
* Provides for a major flow from Swindon and west thereof (including South Wales and the TransWilts and Stroud Valley) to Oxford
* Provides extra capacity on Swindon - Bath and probably fill in trains in the early morning gaps / peak
Stands on its own right, but also provides enabling service for:
* Corsham
* Bathapmpton Parkway
* Royal Wootton Bassett
* Wantage Road / Grove
* East / West Rail
* Change to electric traction

I for one sorely missed the service when it was lost in 2003 and my regular trips to Oxford became a real pain ... I was using the train for those trips when that service was running, but in rather more recent times I have used the car when going to Oxford ... and I am NOT alone in Melksham / Bath / Bristol / Trowbridge / Swindon in doing that!

[John R]

If I remember rightly the Bristol to Oxford service started when the Bristol to London service still had gaps in the half hourly service which this service nicely filled in. As time went by these gaps were filled in by HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to/from London which made the Bristol to Oxford service less viable when you had a half hourly HST service between Bristol/Bath and Chippenham & Swindon.

I think this was one if the reasons given for ending the service between Bristol and Oxford.

The reason I recall the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) axeing it was that some relatively recent service enhancements were causing performance issues, so they were removed. The SouthCentral services to Bournemouth was cut back to Southampton at the same time. I've not been able to find anything that confirms that though. 

[Timmer]

The reason I recall the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) axeing it was that some relatively recent service enhancements were causing performance issues, so they were removed. The SouthCentral services to Bournemouth was cut back to Southampton at the same time. I've not been able to find anything that confirms that though. 

Yes I do also recall that being a reason on both counts.

[ChrisB]

And I do.

I think this may well happen once EastWest starts running services. They won't want to terminate in Oxford owing to capacity contstraints, so hence the Reading suggestions, which is where the initial services will run to.

As mentioned earlier, 2tph to Reading makes little sense, so one via Reading to Heathrow once the Western access is complete, while the other to Bristol. While that could be a starting point for Grove/Wantage, they'll a) want London trains, and b) more than 1tph, and capacity constraints *will* still exist until Didcot/Swindon is properly quadrified. So not dnough of a driver for that station, but better than now.

The other problem holding Grove back is one of extraction. The vast majority of London bound pax already access trains at Didcot & elsewhere. It won't attract many new pax to the railway. Might bring some away from driving/bus to/from Oxford, but as I say, needs more than 1tph

[didcotdean]

One of the RUS^▸ (Route Utilisation Strategy) versions (can't remember which) suggested that there could be an hourly Paddington-Didcot EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) shuttle service, extended at peak times to Swindon. This could I suppose also stop at a resurrected Wantage Road for a peak time service.

Although I too think it would be the case that people from that area would for the train mainly drive to Didcot at present, there is increasing peak time congestion on the route, in particular the Milton junction of the A34/A4130 and indeed on the A4130 into Didcot, hence what I mentioned the other day on improving the public transport connection.

[4064ReadingAbbey]

Although the idea of a (points west of Bristol) - Bristol - Swindon - Oxford - (points east of Oxford) service is to be supported, I hope that it is not compromised by details. My concern is that there will be some pinch points which could cause difficulties, and allowing lots of recovery time for such cases will make timings less attractive than they could be.

For example, Oxford station has limited capacity to support additional services until the proposed rebuild is completed. When this is completed allowing increases in train frequencies on the Worcester/Hereford and the Banbury/Birmingham routes and on the re-opened East-West route then new 'pinch points' will be introduced at the flat junctions at Oxford North and Wolvercot. Equally the flat junction at Foxhall will see increased traffic as will that at Wootton Bassett.

Essentially I am concerned that the improvements in reliability resulting from the reduction in conflicts and delays on the wider Great Western following the completion of the new layout at Reading will be frittered away by increases in traffic at other locations. I appreciate that traffic densities in other locations will be lower than that found at Reading so flat crossings are easier to handle, but equally the supply of track is less as well!

I hope that my concerns are unfounded, because I feel that a Bristol - Oxford (and onwards) train service will fulfil a need. There is a significant gap in the current product offering! I just hope that adding more trains will not adversely affect the timekeeping of the existing ones.

[TonyK]

We should learn from that past / take a careful look at the reasons BUT plan for the future.  To me, the service as proposed looks like it's an excellent idea. 

I concur, grahame. The railway of 2014 seems a world away from that of 2003, and for all the reasons you list (and more), restarting the services sounds an excellent idea. I suspect it will, if implemented, prove to be more heavily used than any forecast. I declare a vested interest - it would probably allow Mrs FT,N! an easier weekly trip to our daughter's Oxfordshire home than the current ride to Swindon, then a leisurely tour of quaint little villages by a bus that runs once every two hours.