SDO............why the discrepancies

[whole diary]

[John R]

The main difficulty seems to be the decision always to stop the front of the train at the platform. This is why North Somerset trains lose so much time on their way into BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)). Instead of 5 platformed standard class coaches, there is now only 1. At Nailsea around 70 people try to board through 2 doors onto a coach that is already overfull due to the same arrangement applying at the previous few stations. So guess what, the dwell time increases from around 1 minute to 3 or 4. Multiply this by all the previous stations which have short platforms, and surprise,surprise, the train can't ever run on time.

Look forward to next May when they extend the journey times to take account of the increased dwell times.     

[Btline]

That is why (in my opinion) it was a mistake to replace Adelantes with HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) on local services.

HSTs are great on long distance trains with stops far apart (the best in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) in my opinion).

Ok, there are more seats on HSTs.

BUT- on the Cotswold line, these extra seats are not needed! So now we will have:

*Increased journey times as acceleration is reduced**- this is magnified as the trains have to call at every village station enroute, and the fact that punctuality is poor due to the single track.

*Increased dwell times, as people are not used to slam door, so take ages to get off, leave doors open; trains which are too long for the short platforms; having to put bikes in the engine, get out onto the platform then get on the train; trains stopping with hardly any second class on the platform.

There is hardly any scope, therefore, for trains making up time! Yes, the timetable will be made more slack, and Hereford and Worcester people will have an even longer journey to London (and it will make no difference to punctuality!)

** I know that some disagree with this- but look at the figures. I have also heard that drivers are not meant to "rev" the engines too much in stations (noise).

The Adelantes are perfect for the Cotswold line.

Do not get me started on SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening)! It is an insult to the British people, which only exists because of our obsession with Heath and Safety and the fact that the UK is a major suing community.

[vacman]

Do not get me started on SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening)! It is an insult to the British people, which only exists because of our obsession with Heath and Safety and the fact that the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is a major suing community.

we have the Yanks to thank for this!!! I agree with you about the Adelantes, I think a good old saying is "horses for courses" HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s might be great trains but you wouldn't want one on the Looe branch!!

[devon_metro]

That is why (in my opinion) it was a mistake to replace Adelantes with HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) on local services.

HSTs are great on long distance trains with stops far apart (the best in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) in my opinion).

Ok, there are more seats on HSTs.

BUT- on the Cotswold line, these extra seats are not needed! So now we will have:

*Increased journey times as acceleration is reduced**- this is magnified as the trains have to call at every village station enroute, and the fact that punctuality is poor due to the single track.

*Increased dwell times, as people are not used to slam door, so take ages to get off, leave doors open; trains which are too long for the short platforms; having to put bikes in the engine, get out onto the platform then get on the train; trains stopping with hardly any second class on the platform.

There is hardly any scope, therefore, for trains making up time! Yes, the timetable will be made more slack, and Hereford and Worcester people will have an even longer journey to London (and it will make no difference to punctuality!)

** I know that some disagree with this- but look at the figures. I have also heard that drivers are not meant to "rev" the engines too much in stations (noise).

The Adelantes are perfect for the Cotswold line.

Do not get me started on SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening)! It is an insult to the British people, which only exists because of our obsession with Heath and Safety and the fact that the UK is a major suing community.

Revving engines was only really applied to the old engines, which were meant to be driven at notch 2 until the end of the platform (snail pace).

The new MTUs^▸ (Motor Traction Unit) are allowed notch 4 departures I believe, which is faster, although not many drivers seem to do it.

[smokey]

Do not get me started on SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening)! It is an insult to the British people, which only exists because of our obsession with Heath and Safety and the fact that the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) is a major suing community.

we have the Yanks to thank for this!!! I agree with you about the Adelantes, I think a good old saying is "horses for courses" HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s might be great trains but you wouldn't want one on the Looe branch!!

Blame "Thatcher" the Snatcher for stealing free school milk, for bringing Britain into the SUE everybody culture and the crazy H & S that followed.

That woman did more damage to Britain than a MR^▸ (Midland Railway) ADOLF HILTER.

[vacman]

And as much damage to the railways as DR BEECHING!

[dog box]

And as much damage to the railways as DR BEECHING!

As a matter of interest the Beeching report is now avalible on line and actually makes interesting reading , Dr Beeching did say close lines XYZ  but also said spend x Million on lines ABC and guess what the government  closed  XYZ but spent no money on ABC.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Grandfather rights only ever applied to trains with slam doors though I believe, because of the fact that with slam doors a passenger would need to open the window to open the door and would see if there was any platform below them, whereas on a sprinter or any train with power doors, you simply press a button and the door opens and you are more likely to just walk off. Does this help??

Many thanks, vacman: yes, it does help - up to a point! 

Problem is, we at Nailsea have only ever had HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) with slam doors where this is an issue - and as John R has posted here previously, everything was going just fine until SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) was introduced!

I must say I sympathise with Mookiemoo: just because some trains have been 'getting away with it' because of some historic (apparently more than twenty year old!) timetable rule, doesn't mean that some new service for an HST to include a stop at Nailsea shouldn't be allowed without SDO?

If some chump has been getting off an unplatformed 0945(ish) HST at Nailsea and doing a triple somersault down the embankment into the brambles for twenty years, he ain't going to be stopped from also doing it from a new 1015 service - just supposing one were to be introduced! 

[dog box]

Concerning Nailsea prior to SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), you would not have needed it to stop extra trains there, but as you are probably aware HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) now stop at Worle and can only do so because of SDO.
if you read the Sectional appendix it states trains of a certain length could not stop at Worle. to overcome this rule SDO was introduced, { this also is the case for lots of other newer type stations}.
 i understand changes are a foot with regards to stopping positions in the very near future especially in the up direction

[Chris from Nailsea]

As a matter of interest the Beeching report is now avalible on line and actually makes interesting reading , Dr Beeching did say close lines XYZ  but also said spend x Million on lines ABC and guess what the government  closed  XYZ but spent no money on ABC.

Thanks very much: could you possibly give us that web address, please?

[John R]

I'm glad to hear that up trains are likely to have the stopping positions changed. Isn't it as simple as saying that up services will have the rear 4 coaches platformed+ power car?

Of course, this has all come about because First decided that they could save money on local services' rolling stock by making additional calls by Inter-City type trains. But they could only add additional stops (eg Worle. In fact, are there any other?) by introducing SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening). Grandfather rights precluded Worle as it was opened after H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) rules came in.

So when the MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) for Weston triumphantly announced that from Dec 07, IC125s would stop at Worle, little did he realise what an impact he would have over the whole of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise area.     

[willc]

SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening) in action? Taken on Saturday at Shipton. This is the 15.28 departure for London pulling away, running reverse formation with standard at the front, so the three passengers waiting to board from the two-coach platform were able to get straight into standard class. The Midland Mainline coaches were sandwiching a refurbished FGW^▸ (First Great Western) buffet.

[Lee]

As a matter of interest the Beeching report is now avalible on line and actually makes interesting reading , Dr Beeching did say close lines XYZ  but also said spend x Million on lines ABC and guess what the government  closed  XYZ but spent no money on ABC.

Thanks very much: could you possibly give us that web address, please?

CANBER^▸ (Campaign Against the New Beeching Report) has had a link on its website to the original Beeching report, and also to its sequel, for quite some time (link below.)
http://www.beechingreport.info/

You can also find the 80's version (the Serpell report, which incidentally Thatcher rejected) in the link below (thanks dewarw.)
http://www.railwaysarchive.co.uk/documents/DoT_Serpell001.pdf

[dog box]

I'm glad to hear that up trains are likely to have the stopping positions changed. Isn't it as simple as saying that up services will have the rear 4 coaches platformed+ power car?

Of course, this has all come about because First decided that they could save money on local services' rolling stock by making additional calls by Inter-City type trains. But they could only add additional stops (eg Worle. In fact, are there any other?) by introducing SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening). Grandfather rights precluded Worle as it was opened after H&S^▸ (Health and Safety) rules came in.

So when the MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) for Weston triumphantly announced that from Dec 07, IC125s would stop at Worle, little did he realise what an impact he would have over the whole of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise area.     

There are lots of Stations The same as Worle throughout FGW Land where HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) can now additionally stop, surely it makes good business  sense to stop HSTs which have much more capacity at these new stations, providing new services and service recovery stops which could never have happened prior to SDO.

[Tim]

Are grandfather rights limited to specific older trains (like HST^▸ (High Speed Train)) only or are they limited to specific stations as well.  The former makes some sense (although I am not sure I agree with teh logic teh logic is there), The latter does not.