SDO............why the discrepancies

[whole diary]

[Jim]

I'm pretty sure it's profit first, safety second if and when they can get away with it.

Quite right there!

[Btline]

Definitely profits first!

Or does safety come under the profits band (amount of compensation they have to pay out)?

The compensation culture we have is the only reason anyone cares about Health and Safety, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) included!

That's why the HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) have locks- really, how many (sane/not stupid) people are going to open and lean out of a window when at 125 mph and fiddle with the door handle?

[John R]

The fact is that before the central locking was introduced there was a steady stream of fatalities due to people falling out of Mk 3 coaches at speed. It was never explained why, but it stopped once the central locking was installed.

[Chris from Nailsea]

Agreed, John - and IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) part of the problem was that the door could be opened by a handle on the inside - where that shiny steel blanking plate was fitted, when central locking was introduced?

[John R]

No Chris, they've never been openable (if that's a verb) from the inside. So it was always a mystery as to how someone could lean out and open the door from the outside at speed. But it happened often enough for the conclusion to be drawn that it needed addressing. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks, John: in that case, a mystery indeed!  But I don't have a problem with central locking per se - just with the way it's being applied perversely with SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening), for example at Nailsea!

[dog box]

 HST^▸ (High Speed Train) Doors have never ever been openable from the inside, there were two types of lock fitted to slam door rolling stock the type with the openable handle fron the inside was a single acting lock and was only ever fitted to innersuburban commuter stock
The type fitted to HSTs is the only one now in service and this is a double acting lock which has a two stage catch to prevent people falling out if they should try to open the door when the train is moving,and thus you have always had to open the window to operate the door handle

[Chris from Nailsea]

Thanks to you, too, dog box: my memory is obviously more dodgy than I thought! 

However, in view of the fairly comprehensive security of such a lock, it is indeed a mystery how anyone could bypass it, while travelling at high speed?

Or is this a case of, "nothing can be made foolproof, because fools are so ingenious!" 

[Mookiemoo]

Thanks to you, too, dog box: my memory is obviously more dodgy than I thought! 

However, in view of the fairly comprehensive security of such a lock, it is indeed a mystery how anyone could bypass it, while travelling at high speed?

Or is this a case of, "nothing can be made foolproof, because fools are so ingenious!" 

Or could it be that slam doors were outlawed because of the issues that happened on the commuter services that had different locks

And no one bothered to make the effort to specify that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) style locks are ok - saw it as an opportunity to outlaw all slam doors unless there was centra locking

[vacman]

Thanks to you, too, dog box: my memory is obviously more dodgy than I thought! 

However, in view of the fairly comprehensive security of such a lock, it is indeed a mystery how anyone could bypass it, while travelling at high speed?

Or is this a case of, "nothing can be made foolproof, because fools are so ingenious!" 

Or could it be that slam doors were outlawed because of the issues that happened on the commuter services that had different locks

And no one bothered to make the effort to specify that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) style locks are ok - saw it as an opportunity to outlaw all slam doors unless there was centra locking

CDL^▸ (Central Door Locking) (central door locks) were only fitted to the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) style locks, all of the old slam door DMU^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)'s and EMU^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit)'s never had any form of door locks fitted, that is apart from the Arriva "bubble car" and the Chiltern "bubble car" which have a strange electro-magnet type CDL. However, at the time, it was not expected for the DMU's and EMU's to be in service for much longer.

[dog box]

The single acting lock was fitted to mK1 Stock and i think that mk2/3 were fitted with the double acting type when new. many mk1s were converted to the newer type.
Regulations dictated all slam doors needed to be locked, mk2/3 were fitted with central door locking ,whilst mk1 vehicles would have been expensive to do and thus as Mookiemoo states only a handful were ever done
All new type trains 170 /5 etc are built with Sdo and thus Hsts now have it to ensure they meet modern regs

[smokey]

I'm pretty sure it's profit first, safety second if and when they can get away with it.

Utter nonsence 

You got a bad memory?
Remember the Southall Crash?

[smokey]

The fact is that before the central locking was introduced there was a steady stream of fatalities due to people falling out of Mk 3 coaches at speed. It was never explained why, but it stopped once the central locking was installed.

The Boffins at the RTC (Railway Techincal Centre) DID^» (Didcot Parkway - next trains) get to the bottom of it.

Carriages where fatalities had occured with persons falling from a moving train, were examined in detail and NO FAULT with the door locks or catches could be found.

However rolling stock suffer from Stress, Expansion and Air Pressures, and the faster the speed the greater the effect.
It was found by lasar measurment that carriages twist and deflect with the shocks coming from the wheels and bogies, along with heat expansion and the lower air pressure outside a train at high speeds.
It was found that with this twisting action the gap between the door lock and striker plate could increase, and in a very few cases it was enough to allow the door lock to move past the striker plate and, bang the door would fly open by air pressure.

That is the reason Secondary Door locks operate at Right Angles to the Door Handle lock.

[John R]

Well thank you. I never knew that.

[Conner]

I'm pretty sure it's profit first, safety second if and when they can get away with it.

Utter nonsence 

You got a bad memory?
Remember the Southall Crash?

Do you really remeber it?
If so, which company was involved carrying passengers?
(No one else answer, I want Smokey to answer)