The toll of young men on Melksham's roads

[whole diary]

[grahame]

Another fatal crash in/near Westbury claimed 3 more last night, reported on 5Live this morning

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page)

Three people have died after a crash between a car and a lorry.

They were in the car when the collision happened on the Quartermaster Road at West Wiltshire Trading Estate in Westbury, Wiltshire, on Friday night.

The road was closed by police for seven hours while they dealt with the accident, which happened at 22:30 GMT.

22:30 on the Trading Estate.   May be a co-incidence, but there's at least one night club there.

[grahame]

From the Wiltshire Times - with photos

Three young men have died following a crash at the West Wiltshire Trading Estate in Westbury last night.

The collision was reported to police just before 10.30pm and involved two vehicles.

Three passengers were travelling in a silver Citroen Saxo which hit a blue articulated lorry and the men were pronounced dead at the scene.

It is thought that this 44-tonne lorry was parked.

[grahame]

http://www.wiltshiretimes.co.uk/news/11650973.Picture_Gallery__Floral_tributes_to_Jordan_Taylor__Nathan_Cox_and_Chad_McVeigh_at_scene_of_Westbury_tragedy/

Take a look ... anything strike you as revealing amongst the tributes?

[Chris from Nailsea]

Hmmm. 

[LiskeardRich]

Struggling not to jump to conclusions on this one. Knowing what mates and myself used to do on empty industrial estates when we 17/18.

I dont think it's appropriate them posting pictures of the wrecked car on there though.

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the Wiltshire Gazette and Herald:

We are all distraught we were unable to save them, says Wiltshire chief constable


Chief Constable Patrick Geenty

Chief Constable Patrick Geenty made an appeal for young drivers to take more care today.

He said: "To all the young drivers in Wiltshire, I am writing to you with a simple plea. As a parent and as a chief constable, please be safe on Wiltshire^s roads.

"In the last few weeks, five young people have been killed in collisions in our county. Many families will not be able to hold their sons, grandsons, friends and relatives this Christmas.

"I am deeply saddened by these deaths. The impact has not only rocked local communities but it has affected my officers who have been on the scene dealing with these tragic incidents.

"Whether a police officer, a paramedic or a fireman, we are all human and return home each day totally distraught that we were unable to save these young men.

"I want to ask all young people to take action ^ be responsible drivers and don^t take any risks with your safety. I urge everyone to take personal responsibility. Ensure your vehicle is roadworthy and you are in a fit and alert condition to drive.

"I ask you to think how you would feel if, as a result of your actions a passenger, a friend, relative or loved one, was seriously killed or injured.

"At this time of the year it is easy to become distracted and feel invincible to the risks and dangers you face on the roads.

"It is a simple request that we can all help with. So I ask all young people in Wiltshire, all parents, relatives and the friends and families who have lost a loved one, to help me in my plea to young drivers to stay safe this Christmas.

"None of us want to see another tragic death on Wiltshire^s roads."

[broadgage]

The dangers of drinking and driving are well known, but a worrying number of drivers still chance it, or drive just about legally after modest drinking which still impairs judgment.
I feel that the drink driving limit should be reduced to that prevailing in much of Europe, and recently adopted in Scotland.

Some young victims were completely sober  and simply drove too fast for the conditions, especially on bends or in wet conditions.
Various devices are available that monitor the speed of a vehicle and compare it with the speed limit, wider use of such would help somewhat.

Other accidents occur at speeds that were legal but unwise, many country roads are dangerous at the general 60MPH limit, and other narrow urban roads are dangerous at 30.
In a great many cases I feel that speed limits should be reduced to 40MPH on most rural roads and to 20 in most urban areas. This would not be appropriate in every case, but IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) these should be the default limits unless the police or other competent authority determine that a higher limit is safe, for example on relatively straight and wide roads.

A general reduction in speed limits would significantly reduce danger to horses, pedestrians and cyclists.

Imagine the outrage if trains were routinely driven at such a speed that they regularly crashed with fatal results !

[BerkshireBugsy]

The opinion that I am about to express is not about this specific incident but about drink driving in general irrespective of the age of the driver.

Isn't part of the problem with having any amount of alcohol beverage before drinking ithat the effects (if any) will vary from person to person? What I'm saying is for example if two different drivers have the same drink it is possible that it may have more of an effect on one than the other ?

It could be argued that the only safe limit is no alcohol at all but then you get into the discussion regarding how long it should be left after a drink before it is safe to drive.

I guess some of us who have had a drink or 3 at night have decided not to drive that night but have got in the car the morning after whilst still being over the limit.

[broadgage]

A zero alcohol limit for driving would not be reasonable since firstly it would outlaw driving for a very long time after drinking when only a minute and harmless trace of alcohol remains.
Secondly many foods and some soft drinks contain minute traces of alcohol, almost certainly of no consequence for driving, but still detectable with modern lab technology.

Do we really want to outlaw driving 12 hours after drinking a single pint of beer ? by any common sense standards, one would be fit to drive 12 hours after a single drink, but a barely detectable trace remains.

Do we really want to outlaw driving after eating ripe fruit, or bread ? Both contain detectable traces of alcohol.

I would however strongly support a lower limit than is the case at present. Reducing the drink drive limit to that prevailing in much of Europe and now in Scotland has the merit of being simple and readily understood.

In the longer term a still lower limit has its merits, but a zero limit, no way for the reasons already given.

[LiskeardRich]

The road safety charity (Brake???) have recently said the lowest the limit could be is 20 (units?) without punishing trace.

Mouthwash is the most common every day item that contains a trace of alcohol.

[ChrisB]

I'd support that limit

[LiskeardRich]

I'd support that limit

I certainly would as well. I haven't drunk any alcohol for over 12 months. I was given a routine breath test about a month ago after a minor traffic collision- someone went into the back of me- why they needed to breath test me I don't know.
The breath test gave a reading of 5 (sorry cant remember the units). I actually had a chat with the police officer about how I gave a reading when I hadn't drunk any alcohol for so long. He told me a list of example products with trace element- some of them were unbelievable, and certainly wouldn't contemplate such products containing alcohol.

[broadgage]

I'd support that limit

And so would I, though I feel that in the near term that a more modest reduction to the limit currently prevailing in much of Europe is more achievable.
A more drastic reduction that would effectively prohibit rather than merely limit drink driving would be preferable IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion), but might not be achievable in the near term.

[IndustryInsider]

The breath test gave a reading of 5 (sorry cant remember the units). I actually had a chat with the police officer about how I gave a reading when I hadn't drunk any alcohol for so long. He told me a list of example products with trace element- some of them were unbelievable, and certainly wouldn't contemplate such products containing alcohol.

The body actually produces alcohol, in small volumes, so I think a reading of zero is pretty rare.  Indeed in some cases you can produce larger volumes:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auto-brewery_syndrome

What a cracking name for a condition!   

[Chris from Nailsea]

Returning, if I may, to the original topic - and as another very sad reminder of the consequences of anyone driving while under the influence of excess alcohol - from the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Bethany Mackie jailed over Christian Smith's death on charity ride


Christian Smith was on a 24-hour "Kent Epic" fundraising ride

A teenager who killed a cyclist during a charity bike ride has been sentenced to five years in prison.

Bethany Mackie, 18, was more than twice the legal alcohol limit when her car hit Christian Smith, 38, from behind.

He was cycling alongside his wife on the last leg of a 24-hour, 248-mile ride across Kent and Sussex on 22 March.

The father of three was pronounced dead at the scene on the A2990 Old Thanet Way, near Chestfield, Whitstable.

Mackie, of Beltinge Road, Herne Bay, had previously admitted causing death by dangerous driving and driving with excess alcohol.

She was sentenced at Canterbury Crown Court.

The court heard after she crashed into Mr Smith she carried on up the road for 400 metres.


Bethany Mackie was more than twice the legal drink-drive limit

A black box device fitted by Mackie's insurance firm to her car revealed she had been driving at up to 76mph on the 60mph road moments before the crash.

Mr Smith's widow Katie Smith read a victim impact statement before the sentencing. She said: "I was alone with him on that road and I tried desperately to save him, but I couldn't. This is something I will always feel guilty for. A short time later I had to wake up my 12, nine and five-year-old to tell them that their daddy was dead.

"The sounds that they made can only be described as horrifying. I have heard that sound many times over the last few months - from my own mouth as well as theirs."

Mr Smith was raising money for the mental health charity Mind. More than ^82,000 has been raised on his JustGiving webpage, eclipsing his ^1,000 target figure.