Six hunting hounds killed by train near Ivybridge, Devon - 22 November 2014

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Six hunting hounds killed by train near Ivybridge, Devon


Six hunting hounds were killed by a train near Ivybridge

Six hunting hounds were hit and killed by a train when they ran onto tracks in the Devon countryside.

A train driver with Network Rail reported hitting the dogs near Ivybridge on Saturday.

Organisers of the Dartmoor Hunt, which owned the dogs, said it was a "very distressing and regrettable" incident.

Tom Lyle, joint master, said: "Nothing like this has ever happened to the hunt before and it was very upsetting to all involved."

Network Rail confirmed one of its drivers reported hitting the dogs at around 12:00 GMT.

The spokesman said: "We were contacted by the police to alert us that a pack of hunting hounds were unaccompanied on the line. We then received a call from a train driver to say that he had gone through the area and had noticed the pack of hounds. He reported that his train had struck six of them, who died as a result of their injuries."

Joe Duckworth, chief executive of the League Against Cruel Sports, called for the Dartmoor Hunt to be "held accountable" for what happened. He said: "Surely if the hunt were following a trail, no-one in their right mind would have laid the scent next to a busy line?"

[chrisr_75]

Judging by how completely out of control a pack of fox hounds were that (unsuccessfully) chased a fox through my and my neighbours gardens recently, I'm surprised this type of thing doesn't happen more frequently.

He said: "Surely if the hunt were following a trail, no-one in their right mind would have laid the scent next to a busy line?"

Hmmm, then what must they have been following then, I wonder??

[TaplowGreen]

Judging by how completely out of control a pack of fox hounds were that (unsuccessfully) chased a fox through my and my neighbours gardens recently, I'm surprised this type of thing doesn't happen more frequently.

He said: "Surely if the hunt were following a trail, no-one in their right mind would have laid the scent next to a busy line?"

Hmmm, then what must they have been following then, I wonder??

Foxhounds are extremely intelligent and well disciplined animals however you cannot ever fully "train out" natural instincts (hence the excursion through your garden!) - if they pick up the scent of a fox they will go after it........in any case a tragic accident and I would imagine the driver was as upset as the Hunt......sympathy to all concerned.

[JayMac]

Sympathy only for the dogs themselves and the driver. Absolutely none for the hunt. Zero reason for a 'trail' to be anywhere near a railway line. Had they not been near then the hounds would not have (as I suspect) picked up an alternative scent.

Any bills for delay or damage should be sent to the Dartmoor Hunt.

[Andy]

Sympathy only for the dogs themselves and the driver. Absolutely none for the hunt. Zero reason for a 'trail' to be anywhere near a railway line. Had they not been near then the hounds would not have (as I suspect) picked up an alternative scent.

Any bills for delay or damage should be sent to the Dartmoor Hunt.

Hear hear.

[chrisr_75]

Judging by how completely out of control a pack of fox hounds were that (unsuccessfully) chased a fox through my and my neighbours gardens recently, I'm surprised this type of thing doesn't happen more frequently.

He said: "Surely if the hunt were following a trail, no-one in their right mind would have laid the scent next to a busy line?"

Hmmm, then what must they have been following then, I wonder??

Foxhounds are extremely intelligent and well disciplined animals however you cannot ever fully "train out" natural instincts (hence the excursion through your garden!) - if they pick up the scent of a fox they will go after it........in any case a tragic accident and I would imagine the driver was as upset as the Hunt......sympathy to all concerned.

The member of the hunt I gave some friendly 'advice' to admitted himself that "they're not supposed to do that". It is illegal to hunt any animal with a pack of dogs, quite straightforward to me, no ifs, no buts. If any dogs (hunt or otherwise) natural instincts cannot be controlled, they should not be allowed out loose. My googling suggests there is an increasing toll of 'accidental' deaths of foxes, pets and livestock, along with damage to property caused by these idiots - this isn't the first time a hunt has been involved in an incident with a train and probably won't be the last...

[TaplowGreen]

Sympathy only for the dogs themselves and the driver. Absolutely none for the hunt. Zero reason for a 'trail' to be anywhere near a railway line. Had they not been near then the hounds would not have (as I suspect) picked up an alternative scent.

Any bills for delay or damage should be sent to the Dartmoor Hunt.

Sorry BNM, but the Dartmoor Hunt cannot compensate for consequential losses 

A lot of assumptions being made on both sides - but would your next step be to present Farmers whose livestock stray onto the railway line with huge bills? Or (God forbid) the parents of young children who stray too near the line while playing?

I must declare an interest in that I have family who farm in Cornwall and anyone with that background have no truck with foxes whatsoever - if you've seen the carnage they cause in a henhouse or amongst a field of pregnant ewes you'd have little sympathy with them - they are vermin and only attract sympathy as they are perceived as looking pretty......the Hunt provides employment for thousands of rural people and was only banned as a political gesture by that famous class warrior Blair, pandering to what he thought was a vote winning class issue.................Tally Ho! 

[JayMac]

A political gesture of a parliament democratically elected by the people. One that hasn't been, or stands any chance of being, overturned by the current parliament.

I don't deny that foxes are problematical for poultry and sheep farmers. But to control them by setting a pack of hounds on them led by a braying mob of hunters is barbaric, cruel, unnecessary and frankly, inefficient. When legal to hunt with hounds a hunt would typically kill one fox a fortnight and only during their hunting season. It was done for sport and no other reason. The economic case for hunts is vastly overstated as well.

I have family who farm in Somerset and they have no truck whatsoever with hunts. They use far more efficient ways of dealing with foxes. With a recognition of the fox's role in keeping the rabbit population in check.

One simple method of keeping foxes out of a hen house is a mirror. Doesn't bother the hens, but Mr Fox will turn tail at sight of 'another' fox. Sonic repellents used for when hens are outside. Nose height electric fencing around fields. Feeding them can also help prevent attacks on livestock. Last resorts of trapping and shooting.

Surveys of sheep farmers have shown that lamb predation by foxes is seen as a relatively minor problem.

[chrisr_75]

A political gesture of a parliament democratically elected by the people. One that hasn't been, or stands any chance of being, overturned by the current parliament.

I don't deny that foxes are problematical for poultry and sheep farmers. But to control them by setting a pack of hounds on them led by a braying mob of hunters is barbaric, cruel, unnecessary and frankly, inefficient. When legal to hunt with hounds a hunt would typically kill one fox a fortnight and only during their hunting season. It was done for sport and no other reason. The economic case for hunts is vastly overstated as well.

I have family who farm in Somerset and they have no truck whatsoever with hunts. They use far more efficient ways of dealing with foxes. With a recognition of the fox's role in keeping the rabbit population in check.

One simple method of keeping foxes out of a hen house is a mirror. Doesn't bother the hens, but Mr Fox will turn tail at sight of 'another' fox. Sonic repellents used for when hens are outside. Nose height electric fencing around fields. Feeding them can also help prevent attacks on livestock. Last resorts of trapping and shooting.

Surveys of sheep farmers have shown that lamb predation by foxes is seen as a relatively minor problem.

Agree 100% with this. In North-West Wales (which most of you will recognise as a heartland of lamb and wool production) my farming neighbours hunt with a couple of dogs for flushing and a couple of local guys with shotguns and/or rifles. This method is efficient (and remains legal), is as humane as it can be and doesn't involve masses of dogs and horses trampling the land, destroying hedgerows and dry stone walls, worrying livestock and so on. Hunting with a pack of dogs & horses generally results in the weakest 'prey' being killed, thus improving the gene pool.

Interestingly, I know one farmer who farms a very very well known beauty spot in N.Wales, who usually has a 'pet' fox on his sheep farm, as having a fox present (that doesn't take lambs) keeps other foxes away who might otherwise take lambs.

The hunt with horses and a pack of dogs is so utterly antiquated, inefficient and ridiculous that it would be simply laughable were it not so deeply unpleasant. Anyone who supports this is demonstrating the deepest ignorance of the countryside and relatively simple science.

[Chris from Nailsea]

As the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) have updated the previous stock image in their news article which started this topic, I have taken the opportunity to update my original post similarly.

[TaplowGreen]

A political gesture of a parliament democratically elected by the people. One that hasn't been, or stands any chance of being, overturned by the current parliament.

I don't deny that foxes are problematical for poultry and sheep farmers. But to control them by setting a pack of hounds on them led by a braying mob of hunters is barbaric, cruel, unnecessary and frankly, inefficient. When legal to hunt with hounds a hunt would typically kill one fox a fortnight and only during their hunting season. It was done for sport and no other reason. The economic case for hunts is vastly overstated as well.

I have family who farm in Somerset and they have no truck whatsoever with hunts. They use far more efficient ways of dealing with foxes. With a recognition of the fox's role in keeping the rabbit population in check.

One simple method of keeping foxes out of a hen house is a mirror. Doesn't bother the hens, but Mr Fox will turn tail at sight of 'another' fox. Sonic repellents used for when hens are outside. Nose height electric fencing around fields. Feeding them can also help prevent attacks on livestock. Last resorts of trapping and shooting.

Surveys of sheep farmers have shown that lamb predation by foxes is seen as a relatively minor problem.

Foxes afraid of mirrors? They must make them soft in Somerset these days, must be all that dodgy cider! Any self respecting proper Westcountry (ie Devon or Cornwall) fox would put down his pasty and pint of Doom Bar and admire his reflection until the chickens emerged! 

[JayMac]

Another instance of the unspeakable in full pursuit of the uneatable (yes, the drag cloth is inedible!) causing chaos for those travelling. This time bringing a busy dual carriageway to a standstill. One hound apparently injured.

From the Shropshire Star:

Hunt takes a bizarre turn onto busy Shropshire road



Traffic on the A5 in Shropshire was forced to slow down as two men rode their horses either side of the road trying to retrieve hounds from the road. At least one of the dogs appeared to be injured and was taken away.

The unusual sight was captured on camera by one driver, who was travelling from Wrexham at the time and pulled into a layby because he was worried about safety.

It is not known which of Shropshire^s hunts were involved in the incident, which happened just near Shrewsbury close to one of the roundabouts on the town^s bypass at about 3.30pm on Wednesday.

He said: ^I was surprised to find one rider in red hunting clothing was riding south along the northbound verge or nearside lane, while another rider was on the southbound lane among the traffic. It was certainly an unusual sight.

^At least one, possibly two hounds were on the road. The drivers of several cars and lorries had to brake but as far as I am aware no accidents occurred.

^It must have been quite hairy for drivers particularly of the lorries, coming off the junction and encountering the horses.

^It could have been a much more serious incident had one of the horses been spooked by the vehicles.^

Another driver, Peter Leigh, also saw the huntsmen on the carriageway. His wife, Carol, said he also saw somebody retrieving dogs from the carriageway.

Also reported in The Telegraph where it was said that the police will not be prosecuting. Probably just some minor forfeit to be carried out by the Hunt Master in the local Masonic Lodge...

Muppets.



Note: The preceding (aside from quoted article) is my personal comment and opinion. 

[trainer]

Muppets.

I strongly disagree.  The Muppets are delightfully whimsical and entertaining. The opposite of what the picture displays. 

[ellendune]

Some selected alternative definitions from Urban Dictionary

Muppet
A person who is ignorant and generally has no idea about anything.

Muppet
a person who defies explanation with regard to common sense and logic, exhubing an air of confidence that is mutually exclusive to that of their accomplishments or ability

Muppet
Originally coined in the police and then spread through emergency services and armed forces before gaining popularity with the general population.

It stands for Most Useless Person Possible Except Trainee

[chrisr_75]

I'm almost speechless at the level of utter ignorance displayed by this second incident. I do hope these people are duly prosecuted for dangerous driving (riding a horse the wrong way down a dual carriageway, seriously???!!). So very lucky that this didn't result in a serious or fatal accident. Idiots.