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Question: Would you welcome new class 278 trains?  (Voting closed: December 03, 2014, 11:21:24 AM)
Yes, they would be good on my line - 4 (7%)
Yes, if it meant more capacity - 16 (28.1%)
Yes, if it meant more services - 12 (21.1%)
Yes, in the right places - 15 (26.3%)
Yes, but not on my line - 4 (7%)
No - 6 (10.5%)
Total Voters: 28

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Author Topic: New trains from old?  (Read 29162 times)
grahame
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« Reply #120 on: February 09, 2017, 09:04:36 AM »

Power to weight ratios are (kW/t): electric 7.1, diesel 2.9, heritage DMU: 2.7 (1 motor car, 80% transmission).

For comparative purposes, what is the ratio for a more modern diesel (turbo, sprinter or pacer?)

For a predominantly electric service with a diesel offshoot, I guess 2.9 may not be too bad. Southampton stopper to Swanage, anyone?  And dare I mention Reading to Bedwyn?
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onthecushions
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« Reply #121 on: February 09, 2017, 01:03:21 PM »


I've calculated the following kW/t figures from power at rail (kW at c80%) and unit or car mass (t)

150: 4.8
159: 6.3
166: 5.2
170: 5.6
101: 3.1
180: 8.6
220: 9.3

The transmission losses don't have a uniform effect. The 101, having a gearbox, can't exert its full power continuously, unlike a unit with an electric or hydraulic power train. The advantage of a bigger engine is clear. The 560kW Cummins QSK19 is the reason than the adelantes and voyagers perform well; also they can have an engine for each car, the 319/4 has two per four car set. The 319 might go a little better if its engine management system allowed use of its short term ratings, i.e overloading the engine with maintenance and service life consequences.

In the end we come back to the fact that railways with lots of traffic, lots of stops, lots of hills and lots of high speed need electrification but that an auxiliary diesel is superb for rural rambles, for reaching the ends of branches and for getting home on a bad day. Hope this helps.

E&OE

OTC
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Four Track, Now!
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« Reply #122 on: February 11, 2017, 11:55:26 PM »

A possible threat to new trains from old is new trains in the form of the Very Light Rail vehicle. See Warwick University's website on the project. Today's Times reports that trials could start within 18 months, so around 2020 probably. These lightweight trains with lorry engines and a maximum speed of 50 to 70 mph are intended to be used on quiet branch lines, including reopened Beeching victims.

Sadly, Portishead is shown on the map that accompanies the article - sadly because it needs heavy trains to run to Parkway, Bath, Severn Beach etc.
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Now, please!
eightf48544
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« Reply #123 on: February 12, 2017, 01:21:52 AM »


Sadly, Portishead is shown on the map that accompanies the article - sadly because it needs heavy trains to run to Parkway, Bath, Severn Beach etc.

Or tram trains with street running through Bristol.
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grahame
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« Reply #124 on: March 03, 2017, 03:31:21 PM »

I saw a D-Train in action today - respondent in Silver with Red and Blue bits, running between Gloucester Road and Earls Court.

Oh ... wait ... I think that was the electric variant!
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grahame
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« Reply #125 on: May 18, 2017, 10:35:19 PM »

http://www.railtechnologymagazine.com/The-Sleepers-Daily-Blog/vivarail-d-trains-now-ready-for-sale-

Quote
Vivarail: D-Trains now ready for sale

Vivarail has announced that its first two production D-Trains are ready for sale, with delivery likely to be completed in early 2018.

The trains can be built and delivered ahead of the forecast schedule due to increased production capacity as Vivarail scale up for 2017 and beyond.

Preparation for construction is already underway at the Quinton Rail Technology Centre. The carriages can be supplied as either two or three car units with or without UAT.
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #126 on: May 19, 2017, 10:30:24 AM »

Ah, I see Vivarail are now marketing their Unpredictable Ablaze Traction feature as an optional extra.

"No, we said passengers may alight here. Not 'the train should set itself alight'..."
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Chris125
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« Reply #127 on: July 02, 2017, 05:54:56 PM »

Citytransportinfo has uploaded a video with clips from 230001's recent shuttle workings to the Rail Live event - having recently 'enjoyed' several 150s recently, the unit comes across as having a much brighter and airier interior with surprisingly unobtrusive engine noise.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTdrtRmSUO0
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #128 on: July 03, 2017, 04:45:44 PM »

Would the VivaRail units be suitable for the Isle of Wight? I don't know what the gauge limits on IoW are, previously they have used old Underground (deep level?) stock. Presumably there will have to thoughts of some sort of replacement for the existing rolling stock, whoever is going to pay for it. I believe the idea is to move towards a community rail set-up.
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John R
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« Reply #129 on: July 03, 2017, 04:49:51 PM »

Would the VivaRail units be suitable for the Isle of Wight? I don't know what the gauge limits on IoW are, previously they have used old Underground (deep level?) stock. Presumably there will have to thoughts of some sort of replacement for the existing rolling stock, whoever is going to pay for it. I believe the idea is to move towards a community rail set-up.
The IoW uses the lower profile tube stock, whereas the D Train is sub-surface stock. So I suspect the answer is that it would not be suitable.
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grahame
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« Reply #130 on: July 03, 2017, 04:53:59 PM »

Would the VivaRail units be suitable for the Isle of Wight? I don't know what the gauge limits on IoW are, previously they have used old Underground (deep level?) stock. Presumably there will have to thoughts of some sort of replacement for the existing rolling stock, whoever is going to pay for it. I believe the idea is to move towards a community rail set-up.

My understanding is that the tunnel at Ryde is so limited that it has to be true deep level tube stock, and the old sub-surface District Line units are too big.   There was a suggestion of a light rail / tram services, using roads across Ryde.

There is already a CRP (Community Rail Partnership) for the Isle of Wight - and very active they are to (their dancers in Waterloo on 17th May left me tired just from looking at them).   But it would be a whole different kettle of fish for them to become in essence the operators.
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paul7755
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« Reply #131 on: July 03, 2017, 05:00:52 PM »

SWT have been consistent (over about 5 or 6 years or more) in saying that the next IOW stock is earmarked to be ex LU 73 stock (Piccadilly Line) whenever it becomes available.   

AIUI anything of a more normal size, even most trams, would need some track lowering through Ryde Tunnel.

Paul

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onthecushions
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« Reply #132 on: July 03, 2017, 06:35:38 PM »


I've read that the height of the Ryde tunnel invert is 12' 31/2" or 3746mm.

For comparison a class 507/8 maximum height is 3582mm, a 45x is 3774mm and Mark 1 slammers are 3860 - 3899. A tube train height is 2772mm.  Clearances are of course a little more complicated than this as there are profile, static and dynamic spacings to be considered.

Balfour Beatty etc do slab track, quoted as 370mm from base to rail height, saving 300/400mm on ballasted, sleepered track. It's probably gentler on any services, pipes and drains underneath.

Where there's a will...

OTC

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rogerw
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« Reply #133 on: July 03, 2017, 08:49:09 PM »

The clearance in Ryde tunnel used to be greater as it took normal mainline stock in steam days.  However it was prone to flooding which does not mix with third rail electrification so when the line was electrified the decision was taken to raise the track bed as ex tube stock was being used.
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« Reply #134 on: July 03, 2017, 10:15:34 PM »

A back issue of Parry News on the Parry People Movers site addressed this issue suggesting that their products might be a solution. The back issues are on their site. The article is in their Nov 2015 issue on their news archive pages. The general website also features the current story on the couple visiting all of the UK stations.
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