profit first, safety second?

[whole diary]

[dog box]

First Buses put Profit First, Safety Second, otherwise how else can you explain all the First Group Buses that get ORDERED OFF THE ROAD by vehicle examiners.

Like Father, Like Son.

First Bus, First Great Western it's the same top management!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Smokey this post is totally irrelevant, they may well cause you grief.......... .but First Bus and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are totally different companies and like vacman says are you in a position to comment on FGWs safety policy? I can and i will
I can assure you that any safety critical member of FGW staff WILL NOT do something if they consider it unsafe and the relevant procedures are in place to enable this to happen

[moonraker]

profit first, safety second, uumm!     
[/quote]As i've said in a previous post, along with a colleague from FGW^▸ (First Great Western), FGW seem to take safety very seriously, more so than Wessex
[/quote]

Wessex took SAFETY VERY SERIOUSLY !! and ALL ex-Wessex staff still do!!! don't get me started on this...

Time is money !! and when a service is made into a profit hungry company as happened at privitisation pressure is put on every element of the operation to account for its self. If TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s were not fined so readily for minute by minute delays many of which caused by passengers...

[mr_guard]

Having worked at a number of Train Operating Companies, I can easily say that the safety culture at First Great Western is far far superior than at many others Whether this is a result of tightening standards after Southall and Paddington, I couldn't say, but I can safely say that the traincrew at First Great Western have much more rigourous assessments than at many other companies. Staff who aren't up to scratch are taken off frontline duties and retrained and monitored much more closely than at other places.

I can say without question that I have complete confidence in those in safety critical grades, be they guards, drivers or standards managers at Great Western. I couldn't say the same about other operators where although the vast majority of the staff do their duties competantly, there are some which are quite frankly a worry!

Bear in mind that in the most recent Ufton Nervet incident, the surviving traincrew performed all their duties competantly, and were praised by passengers and managers alike. The guards who were on that train still work for the company as guards, of which at least one of them is a mentor / trainer guard for new entrants.

[mr_guard]

The issue with the doors is down to having a door on the catch, which would mean it is not securely closed.

This is a safety issue, and can have consequences for any of the staff involved in the dispatch of that service.

So for a TM^‡(resolve) having to check himself, that would be why, he needs to cover himself.

Indeed. Also on occasions where trains have been platformed but passengers can't get on till the last minute, or leave late from starting stations, in many cases it is where staff have a tight turnaround and are performing their safety duties. Guards will be doing preperation duties, checking the hammers, and safety equipment is in place, checking the locomotives, performing brake continuity tests, inspecting the  outside of the train, and physical connections between the carriages are secure. Equally drivers will be testing safety equipment in the cabs, performing brake tests, checking communication equipment is working properly and so on. All this takes time. It might appear the guard and driver are ambling slowly up and down the platform, and wasting time having a chat, indeed without knowing the reasons might be frustrating for the passenger, but it is a requirement that both have the required paperwork and both have briefed each other on any restrictions that might be involved when running the train safely.

[12hoursunday]

First Buses put Profit First, Safety Second, otherwise how else can you explain all the First Group Buses that get ORDERED OFF THE ROAD by vehicle examiners.

Like Father, Like Son.

First Bus, First Great Western it's the same top management!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Wrong again. The one thing I get peed off with is the red tape surrounding safety. I  far as I am concerned the management take saftey far too seriously. I am not saying anyone in the industry that First are in should turn a blind eye to safety but this lot take it to far!

[gpn01]

I'm sure that the staff and management are very safety conscious.....which is a very good thing!  The only main area which I think compromises safety is the overcrowding of carriages as this results in many passengers standing in the aisles and doorways.  There's no such thing as standing room on coaches and aeroplanes.  I feel that trains should be the same.

[gaf71]

I'm sure that the staff and management are very safety conscious.....which is a very good thing!  The only main area which I think compromises safety is the overcrowding of carriages as this results in many passengers standing in the aisles and doorways.  There's no such thing as standing room on coaches and aeroplanes.  I feel that trains should be the same.

You are right that safety is our number one priority when working a train, and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are very hot on this, and rightly so. The example you raise of overcrowded trains, is a massive problem which for some reason is not acted upon by the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company)'s. There apparently is no law or legislation relating to how many passengers can be crammed into a train, and it is left to the conductor/train managers discretion(normally the conductor, as you rarely see an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) formed of 1 coach!). The only problem is when a single 153 arrives at Bristol TM^‡(resolve) or Exeter Central at 1720, how does the guard try to stop hundreds of people boarding, who just want to get home from work/college etc? You just try and get as many on as you can, squeeze yourself in, apologise to the passengers left behind, and hope nothing happens on the journey as there is no way you can get through the train! As for the profit first thing, in this scenario, you cannot physically check or sell tickets, so it's probably 'profit second, safety second'!

The other option is to refuse to move the train until you feel it is safe to do so, i.e. remove passengers until all of the train is accessible to the guard. This rarely happens as it normally just causes a lot more problems

[smokey]

First Buses put Profit First, Safety Second, otherwise how else can you explain all the First Group Buses that get ORDERED OFF THE ROAD by vehicle examiners.

Like Father, Like Son.

First Bus, First Great Western it's the same top management!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really like First don't you Smokey 

I'M GETTING STICK HERE FOR MY VIEW ON FGW^▸ (First Great Western) AND SAFETY,
SURELY I'M ENTITLED TO MY VIEW,

ANOTHER POINT IS EVERY BODY IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS
I'M WELL AWARE OF THE SAFE OPERATION OF TRAINS, BUT THERES MORE TO RAILWAYS THAN RUNNING TRAINS AND MY SAFETY CONCERNS ARE NOT DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH TRAINS, FAR FROM IT.

[Shazz]

First Buses put Profit First, Safety Second, otherwise how else can you explain all the First Group Buses that get ORDERED OFF THE ROAD by vehicle examiners.

Like Father, Like Son.

First Bus, First Great Western it's the same top management!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really like First don't you Smokey 

I'M GETTING STICK HERE FOR MY VIEW ON FGW^▸ (First Great Western) AND SAFETY,
SURELY I'M ENTITLED TO MY VIEW,

ANOTHER POINT IS EVERY BODY IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS
I'M WELL AWARE OF THE SAFE OPERATION OF TRAINS, BUT THERES MORE TO RAILWAYS THAN RUNNING TRAINS AND MY SAFETY CONCERNS ARE NOT DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH TRAINS, FAR FROM IT.

awww, did someone get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

[smokey]

First Buses put Profit First, Safety Second, otherwise how else can you explain all the First Group Buses that get ORDERED OFF THE ROAD by vehicle examiners.

Like Father, Like Son.

First Bus, First Great Western it's the same top management!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really like First don't you Smokey 

I'M GETTING STICK HERE FOR MY VIEW ON FGW^▸ (First Great Western) AND SAFETY,
SURELY I'M ENTITLED TO MY VIEW,

ANOTHER POINT IS EVERY BODY IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS
I'M WELL AWARE OF THE SAFE OPERATION OF TRAINS, BUT THERES MORE TO RAILWAYS THAN RUNNING TRAINS AND MY SAFETY CONCERNS ARE NOT DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH TRAINS, FAR FROM IT.

awww, did someone get out of the wrong side of the bed this morning?

Don't think so I've had a brillant day, it's not been a bad week at all.

[devon_metro]

First Buses put Profit First, Safety Second, otherwise how else can you explain all the First Group Buses that get ORDERED OFF THE ROAD by vehicle examiners.

Like Father, Like Son.

First Bus, First Great Western it's the same top management!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really like First don't you Smokey 

I'M GETTING STICK HERE FOR MY VIEW ON FGW^▸ (First Great Western) AND SAFETY,
SURELY I'M ENTITLED TO MY VIEW,

ANOTHER POINT IS EVERY BODY IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS
I'M WELL AWARE OF THE SAFE OPERATION OF TRAINS, BUT THERES MORE TO RAILWAYS THAN RUNNING TRAINS AND MY SAFETY CONCERNS ARE NOT DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH TRAINS, FAR FROM IT.

Your view is total rubbish though, the safety standards are second to none. If profits were more important HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) WOULD NOT have laminated glass!!!

Have your view but i've seen no concrete evidence of your POV

[Jim]

First Buses put Profit First, Safety Second, otherwise how else can you explain all the First Group Buses that get ORDERED OFF THE ROAD by vehicle examiners.

Like Father, Like Son.

First Bus, First Great Western it's the same top management!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You really like First don't you Smokey 

I'M GETTING STICK HERE FOR MY VIEW ON FGW^▸ (First Great Western) AND SAFETY,
SURELY I'M ENTITLED TO MY VIEW,

ANOTHER POINT IS EVERY BODY IS JUMPING TO CONCLUSIONS
I'M WELL AWARE OF THE SAFE OPERATION OF TRAINS, BUT THERES MORE TO RAILWAYS THAN RUNNING TRAINS AND MY SAFETY CONCERNS ARE NOT DIRECTLY ASSOCIATED WITH TRAINS, FAR FROM IT.

Your view is total rubbish though, the safety standards are second to none. If profits were more important HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) WOULD NOT have laminated glass!!!

Have your view but i've seen no concrete evidence of your POV

It's his POV, you don't need evidence to have a view!

[grahame]

... the safety standards are second to none. If profits were more important HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) WOULD NOT have laminated glass!!!

I'm not sure whether it's an "either / or" type decision here.  An increased expenditure on safety leads to a reduction in compensation payments when things go wrong - in other words, it's an investment. And a company which didn't give an appropriately very high position to safety would soon see its customer numbers hit when it was realised that they hadn't done everything in their powers to lessen the dangers.

[Timmer]

You really like First don't you Smokey 

from Smokey
I'M GETTING STICK HERE FOR MY VIEW ON FGW^▸ (First Great Western) AND SAFETY,
SURELY I'M ENTITLED TO MY VIEW,

You are very much entitled to your point of view Smokey and your posts are welcome here. I apologise if my above 'tongue in cheek comment' caused any offense as it wasn't meant to and certainly wasn't to give you any stick.

[Mookiemoo]

First Group RUIN my life!!!!

Okay smokey, I've seen what you say.........now:

1. I probably spend in total more time on FGW^▸ (First Great Western) trains than anyone other than staff (does anyone here do 2:20 in each direction most days?)

2. I use, arguably, the most unreliable line in the FGW network

3. Even when train run on time, the stock used for a LONG DISTANCE journey is often debatable

4. Anything up to 20 minutes late is regarded as on time by most commuters on my line

Even given that, I cannot say FGW ruin my life.

Maybe some persepective is in order