An extra service to Frome from May 2015. Potential for another???

[whole diary]

[grahame]

The TransWilts timetable changes this May - a Monday to Friday run is extended to and from Frome (arrive 13:43, leave 14:04), and the Sunday TransWilts service is recast.   Both are excellent moves, both for the improvements they provide and showing an integrattion of the current trial service on the TransWilts with other services (the Sunday changes) and lines (the Monday to Friday extension).  See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15401.0 for more detailed post.

The question arises "so - can there be any other similiar gains" and I take a look at the possibility of starting the 07:33 from Westbury back at Frome at 07:23 - this would give an extra peak train from Frome in the 07:04 to 08:02 gap, and give an extra (connectional) arrival into Bristol at 08:29 - between the 08:06 and 09:06.   Coming the other way, extending the 17:36 from Swindon to give a Frome arrival at 18:31 would fill their 17:49 to 18:49 gap, giving an extra Bristol departure at 17:23 (by connection) between the 16:49 and 17:49.

A quick glance at the timetable shows the 17:36 from Swindon arriving into Westbury at 18:21, and an 18:32 departure back to Swindon.  However, this is the time of day at which the "unit switch" for the TransWilts service is made, so it is not the same train.

I'm straying a little out of my county asking this question, but there is a significant commuter flow from Frome to various places beyond Westbury, including some to Swindon, and a peak through train would, I suspect, generate extra traffic and use a unit that's available at the time.  What do others think? Is this a suggestion worth making, or a silly idea?

Edit to correct typo

[IndustryInsider]

Frome is out on a limb a little bit, but my experience is that the little station provides plenty of passengers for each train, and plugging gaps in the service (such as that that will be plugged around the 2pm mark) only makes the station more attractive to its residents.  Minor tweaks leading to quick wins can be as important as more comprehensive changes sometimes!

The changes you suggest, sound, in principle, excellent ideas - especially the morning tweak.  Though that one would require an alteration to the drivers diagram (and maybe the guards as well?) as they are currently having their PNB^▸ (Personal Needs Break) (Physical Needs Break - in other words their break!) at the earlier time they would have to be taking the set off of Westbury depot.  That might not be too difficult to change, but it does show that it's not always as easy as just having a train and a path.

I've attached the relevant drivers diagram, so you can see what I mean:

[grahame]

Much appreciate that feedback and insight - I'm aware of the break issues in principle, but staff rotas are more difficult to deduce than train rotas so at best it's an educated guess.   Another guess (on that same rota) suggests to me that moving the 08:49 ex Swindon to 08:36 would also be a break issue  - pity, as that's another "small change, big improvement" candidate as it would make southbound commuting more attractive, and (as I'm posting in Heart of Wessex) also provide a connection onward to Frome and stations to Weymouth which would be greatly used in summer!

[phile]

Frome is out on a limb a little bit, but my experience is that the little station provides plenty of passengers for each train, and plugging gaps in the service (such as that that will be plugged around the 2pm mark) only makes the station more attractive to its residents.  Minor tweaks leading to quick wins can be as important as more comprehensive changes sometimes!

The changes you suggest, sound, in principle, excellent ideas - especially the morning tweak.  Though that one would require an alteration to the drivers diagram (and maybe the guards as well?) as they are currently having their PNB^▸ (Personal Needs Break) (Physical Needs Break - in other words their break!) at the earlier time they would have to be taking the set off of Westbury depot.  That might not be too difficult to change, but it does show that it's not always as easy as just having a train and a path.

I've attached the relevant drivers diagram, so you can see what I mean:

Do Gloucester crews work all the Trans-Wilts or are not Westbury involved at all.

[ReWind]

Westbury & Gloucester both sign the Melksham branch.

[IndustryInsider]

Yes, and if breaks are tight they'd be nothing stopping one of the Westbury drivers being rostered to bring the train off the depot and take it to Frome and back to Westbury to be relieved by the Gloucester driver to take it on to Swindon.  That's if there's any slack in the Westbury drivers allocations at that time of the morning of course.  I guess my point was that whilst shuffling round the guards and drivers is probably not an insurmountable task, it does need to be considered.

[phile]

Yes, and if breaks are tight they'd be nothing stopping one of the Westbury drivers being rostered to bring the train off the depot and take it to Frome and back to Westbury to be relieved by the Gloucester driver to take it on to Swindon.  That's if there's any slack in the Westbury drivers allocations at that time of the morning of course.  I guess my point was that whilst shuffling round the guards and drivers is probably not an insurmountable task, it does need to be considered.

Does that mean that Gloucester drivers are actually diagrammed to all services via Melksham rather than shared with Westbury ?

[IndustryInsider]

No, as ReWind said both Gloucester and Westbury depots have drivers that sign the route through Melksham.

[Rhydgaled]

No, as ReWind said both Gloucester and Westbury depots have drivers that sign the route through Melksham.

They may sign it but not actually have booked worked over it, just in case of diversions etc.? Although there would probably need to be alot of route learning services to allow the other group to refresh their route knowledge if that was the case.

[Network SouthEast]

Both Westbury and Gloucester drivers and guards both have booked work over the Melksham line.

[phile]

Thanks for the reply I was looking for.  Cleared it up now.

[thetrout]

Agree mostly with all the timetable points here... But there are some considerations to be made in terms of the existing offering.

Coming the other way, extending the 17:36 from Swindon to give a Frome arrival at 18:31 would fill their 17:49 to 18:49 gap, giving an extra Bristol departure at 17:23 (by connection) between the 16:49 and 17:49.

I could see this causing problems for 2 reasons.

the 19:06 Frome - Bristol Temple Meads train is booked to arrive at 19:00 and sit in the station for 6 minutes. This allows an UP London Paddington train the chance to overtake IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly).

The 18:49 Frome - Weymouth is a peak time train from Bath Spa & Bristol Temple Meads and is usually a few minutes late...

This leaves the risk possible for an 18:31 arrival being say 10 minutes late. You then have another 2 trains, 1 each in opposite directions all wanting a path in Frome in addition to anything InterCity grade on the avoiding lines. So what do you do to prevent that 19:06 from hogging the UP line thus meaning the InterCity service needs to slow down or stop completely around the Witham Friary area?

We know that what should happen is allow the 19:06 into the station and get the 18:31 and 18:49s to sit at the signals in the branch lines... The 18:49 also connects at Castle Cary for an Exeter St Davids / Plymouth* train so delay to this is bad news for anyone wanting to go anywhere near Penzance

I don't think it's a silly idea. But I could see FGW^▸ (First Great Western) having some justified concerns to the punctuality of their Long Distance services. Perhaps for the more insidious reasons that trains through Frome aren't well known for their timekeeping except a small handful of trains which are either on time or cancelled in full