Reading FC at Wembley: Fans criticise First Great Western over rail fares

[whole diary]

[ChrisB]

Barring Groupsave is the right thing to do, but in reality football fans will still travel so is a pointless exercise, and all that happens is FGW^▸ (First Great Western) make more money, which is naughty!!!

Why on earth is it 'naughty'?.....^6 is all the saving. less than two pints of beer. But that's not the point. Groupsave is an offer to fill seats when the demand *IS NOT* there. The demand is definitely there, and as you rightly observe, there is limited services to get pax home. I really don't see any issue here. TfL^» (Transport for London - about) aren't dropping prices within London are they?!!

[BerkshireBugsy]

Barring Groupsave is the right thing to do, but in reality football fans will still travel so is a pointless exercise, and all that happens is FGW^▸ (First Great Western) make more money, which is naughty!!!

Why on earth is it 'naughty'?.....^6 is all the saving. less than two pints of beer. But that's not the point. Groupsave is an offer to fill seats when the demand *IS NOT* there. The demand is definitely there, and as you rightly observe, there is limited services to get pax home. I really don't see any issue here. TfL^» (Transport for London - about) aren't dropping prices within London are they?!!

ChrisB - I totally agree with you. If, conversely, FGW put the prices up above normal on such a day then I could understand this being cause for complaint.  If you look at budget hotels near major sporting/entertainment venues in comparison it is common practise for them to put their prices up when a big event is on. As a customer you then have two choices if you want a room - take it or leave it.

[grahame]

Why on earth is it 'naughty'?.....

Groupsave isn't marketed as an advanced purchase ticket - it's sold as something that you can buy right before you travel, or on the train if you join at a station without a working TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine) or ticket office. And it's not marketed as a ticket with a quota system in any way.  

In my personal view, it's not very clever - perhaps "naughty" - to have a groupsave available, for sale, purchasable in advance for (for example) arriving into London on next Saturday afternoon and then after the tickets have been bought by some people to add an extra restriction.  If there were groupsave  quotas like there are advance purchase quotas, which can be changed at any time and it's well known that they exist, then it would be perfectly expected that quotas would have run out quickly or have been changed.

With GroupSave as a whole, I'm happy that it exists - it's not the fantastic bargain it used to be, but then in the summer of 2011 a group of 4 adults and 4 children could travel from my local station to the seaside and back for the dat for 36 pounds; it was fantastically helpful in terms of our marketing test for the TransWilts, but it could hardly have paid the cost of running the train - even though it was full and standing

[Louis94]

Isn't there a capacity problem re: the Chiefs in that Digby and Sowton station can only take short trains?

Digby & Sowton station will quite happily accommodate 4-car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) with some room still to spare; I think the usable platform length is just over 100m.

DIG is only allowed to accommodate 4 or fewer coach trains for some reason. The platform is 109m long, and shorter platforms don't have a similar embargo.

DIGBY & SOWTON
No train longer than four coaches may stop at this station.

The only other time GSVs are barred down here seems to be Argyle v City.

Of course FGW^▸ (First Great Western) also bar GSVs for games at the Millennium Stadium, Cheltenham, Glastonbury etc...

The extra platform length could not be used anyway, Lympstone Village's platform is only 90 metres long, so that would need extending first - or trains would not be able to call there whilst running longer trains (if it was allowed)

[ChrisB]

In my personal view, it's not very clever - perhaps "naughty" - to have a groupsave available, for sale, purchasable in advance for (for example) arriving into London on next Saturday afternoon and then after the tickets have been bought by some people to add an extra restriction.

Theyu can't add an extra restriction *after* they have been bought - it's illegal, and they haven't.

[JayMac]

Groupsave is an offer to fill seats when the demand *IS NOT* there. The demand is definitely there, and as you rightly observe, there is limited services to get pax home. I really don't see any issue here. TfL^» (Transport for London - about) aren't dropping prices within London are they?!!

Demand is there on Sunday, yet London Midland and Chiltern haven't barred group products.

What has TfL got to do with the price of fish?

[grahame]

In my personal view, it's not very clever - perhaps "naughty" - to have a groupsave available, for sale, purchasable in advance for (for example) arriving into London on next Saturday afternoon and then after the tickets have been bought by some people to add an extra restriction.

Theyu can't add an extra restriction *after* they have been bought - it's illegal, and they haven't.

I agree. But they have offered a ticket for sale, without restriction and people are told:

You can buy GroupSave discounted tickets online in advance or at the station on the day.

So you see the ticket you want is available either way, look on line, but don't buy it because you're not sure whether Colin's mum is going to be able to come along, and you don't know whether to but for 4 or 5 people.  Joy of joy, Bessie (that's Colin's Mum) is well enough, but when you get to the station you find it's not after all available on the day ... even though there was no quota, no statement that it might change (in fact you were told you could buy on the day), it turns out that it's been changed and you can't.

[JayMac]

Colin then remembers that comment on the local paper's website about the restriction not being applied to online bookings and buys the tickets via his phone and collects them from the TVM^▸ (Ticket Vending Machine). 

[didcotdean]

Tickets strictly speaking still won't be valid though as according to the Groupsave Calendar ("holders of GroupSave discounted tickets cannot travel if a restriction is shown below").

I presume the concession of allowing these should only apply to tickets bought before the date was added to the calendar. Of course there isn't an easy way of knowing this ...

[ChrisB]

Groupsave is an offer to fill seats when the demand *IS NOT* there. The demand is definitely there, and as you rightly observe, there is limited services to get pax home. I really don't see any issue here. TfL^» (Transport for London - about) aren't dropping prices within London are they?!!

Demand is there on Sunday, yet London Midland and Chiltern haven't barred group products.

What has TfL got to do with the price of fish?

Chiltern & LM^▸ (London Midland - recent franchise) can choose to offer or not - as can FGW^▸ (First Great Western). It's an *offer* not a contracted right.

[JayMac]

Tickets strictly speaking still won't be valid though as according to the Groupsave Calendar ("holders of GroupSave discounted tickets cannot travel if a restriction is shown below").

I presume the concession of allowing these should only apply to tickets bought before the date was added to the calendar. Of course there isn't an easy way of knowing this ...

The ticket buying process online doesn't link to or mention the GroupSave calendar in the T&Cs. Therefore it's a hidden term and contractually unenforceable.

[Thatcham Crossing]

Thanks to Insider for the really useful info on the RDG^‡(resolve)-PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains) (and return) movements on Sat.

I will be travelling into London and out (for other reasons, although hoping to catch the game in a hostelry if possible),
and was a bit concerned about how busy it might be, especially the evening return.

Good to see that hopefully there is lots of frequency and capacity during the period I am likely to be travelling  

[didcotdean]

So has anyone tried Groupwise tickets on a Friday afternoon to Cornwall then if the calendar is unenforceable? Or are these properly not sold?

EDIT - the calendar is linked to on ticket sales sites under the terms of the ticket. ("Please refer to the National Rail Group Save Calendar for details of exclusions and restrictions."). Really though they should have been pulled off sale properly.

[TaplowGreen]

Back in 1999 I organised a rugby tour from Buckinghamshire to Plymouth - we travelled RDG^‡(resolve)-PLY^» (Plymouth - next trains) on the Friday before the May Bank Holiday and returned on the Bank Holiday Monday, we decided to travel by train as the cost of a coach would have been horrendous - there were 43 of us and FGW^▸ (First Great Western) bent over backwards to accomodate us, despite it being a very busy period - the only stipulation was that they would identify the trains for us to travel on but this wasn't a problem, mid morning both ways.....everyone behaved themselves, we got a fantastic group rate and even a refund for a couple of people that couldn't travel.

Considering the mean spirited approach to this issue on Sunday with people travelling to Wembley I am left to contemplate how times, and attitudes to customers have changed.

[The Tall Controller]

There will be a queuing system in place at Reading for everyone going to London on Saturday in order to control boarding numbers. The north side ticket office will be closed to make room for the queuing system. Only the main ticket office at the south end will be open.

There will be no system in place at Paddington in the evening.

I'm coming up from Exeter to watch the game with my family. Can't wait!