Today's MAJOR failure (30/04/15)

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

Generally no the blue light services do not charge, basically because the number of turn outs is miniscule compared to RTA's.

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) will have had its team of MOMs^▸ (Mobile Operations Manager) (mobile operations managers) deployed, in London there are a number of these deployed with BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) who respond to incidents with blues and twos.  The MOMs take on the role of RIO^▸ (Rail Incident Officer) (Rail Incident Officer) and lease with the blue light incident officers all of whom form what is called Silver Command, this incident may have escalated to Gold Command which will be senior managers / officers being involved.

NR staff that can actually be deployed to respond to these type incidents is very small, many NR staff are just not trained to go out and about on the railway and certainly not in how to deal with incidents, the blue light services are specialists, the MOMs role is to make the railway safe, that is talk to the signaller and ECR to get all the confirmations it is safe and then the blue light services will set to work.   This all sounds like it takes a long time to set up well it doesn't typically the MOM can secure even a complex area in a matter of a few minuets.

Almost certainly the procedure of this panel   http://www.leslp.gov.uk/ will have been implemented, both TfL^» (Transport for London - about) and NR are asked to input into this panel.

...........so basically the contingency plan consists of "call 999" - I bet the emergency services are delighted - thank God there were no major fires in the area..........and 4 hours for people to be stranded in an overcrowded, overheated environment without adequate water or basic facilities sounds like a long time to me.




Edit note: Quote marks fixed, for clarity. CfN.

[ellendune]

...........so basically the contingency plan consists of "call 999" - I bet the emergency services are delighted - thank God there were no major fires in the area..........and 4 hours for people to be stranded in an overcrowded, overheated environment without adequate water or basic facilities sounds like a long time to me.

The M4 was closed near Swindon due to an accident yesterday and drivers were delayed.  No as much as 4 hours, but there was chaos in Swindon. There have been similar incidents on the M4 when cars were trapped for 4-5 hours.  So do the Highways Agency Highways England have an army of people on standby to deal with these incidents? No.

In the last few years they have recruited a few Traffic Officers who can deal with minor incidents - but otherwise they rely on the emergency services.  Why should Network Rail be any different?

[broadgage]

You aren't expecting the diesel engine underneath the electric IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) to work the aircon, are you? It'll only just about move the 9car a few miles

According to the presentation Hitachi gave at an IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train) event 2 years ago for the "all electric" (the ones that do not normally operate bi-mode) the diesel engine will maintain the "hotel" services ie lighting and aircon in excess of the 6 hours specified by DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) also will be able to move the train at 30 mph

For reasons already given, I have considerable misgivings about the new trains. One of the few good points IMHO^▸ (in my humble opinion) is the fitting of limited diesel power to the nominally electric trains so as to permit of low speed operation to the next station etc when the OHLE falls down or otherwise fails.
When nothing can move for hours, the ability to work air conditioning could be vital.

IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly), the 9 car units are to have 2 engines, and the half length units a single engine. I think that depot movements are to be under diesel power, so hopefully the equipment will be reliable due to regular use.

[Puffing Billy]

... The M4 was closed near Swindon due to an accident yesterday ...

There are significant differences between road and rail in these circumstances. I can take responsibility for my own safety and comfort by keeping water, food, blankets etc. in my car, but it is not practical to lug all these about on public transport. Also, if the standstill is clearly going to last a long time, I can simply get out of the car, and, providing I act sensibly, no-one is going to stop me.

[TaplowGreen]

... The M4 was closed near Swindon due to an accident yesterday ...

There are significant differences between road and rail in these circumstances. I can take responsibility for my own safety and comfort by keeping water, food, blankets etc. in my car, but it is not practical to lug all these about on public transport. Also, if the standstill is clearly going to last a long time, I can simply get out of the car, and, providing I act sensibly, no-one is going to stop me.

Agreed - in your car it's your own responsibility - trying to compare road & rail in these circumstances is simply not apples with apples.....it always amuses me how whenever rail cocks up and comes in for criticism, the rail lobby/fan club desperately hunt around for some other means of transport which has had problems and holds that up as an exemplar as if it somehow excuses their own failings......serious delays on the roads are generally the result of an accident or emergency - this is what the emergency services are for - for example the problems near Reading this week were as the result of a concrete lorry turning over and people being seriously injured.....what happened yesterday was an unusual but entirely foreseeable circumstance with no-one in immediate danger (ie train gets stuck and needs to be evacuated) for which there should be robust plans - to stand around scratching arses leaving people trapped for hours and then even expect the emergency services to deliver water supplies is a disgrace and I hope NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) do get charged, as I would expect to be if I called the LFB to get my cat out of a tree!

[Electric train]

I guess NR^» (Network Rail - home page) could have an army of rapid response personnel, couple of questions though?


How many in these teams?
What equipment would they need?
Where would you base them?
How will these teams of 'Hot Standby's' be paid for?

They could not be deployed on any other duties because if they were needed and they were busy doing something else everyone would scream what a waste of money.

The Blue Light Services working with NR (and LU) and local authorities are more than able to deal with these types of incident; there are regular meetings and training sessions carried out.  

The evacuation of a train onto the ballast is not taken lightly, the trackside is a hostile environment even for seasoned and well equipped railway staff; disembarking passengers is the last resort it may have been uncomfortable on the train but down on the track the risk of serious injury is very high.

I am sure there will be a Board level enquiry into this and the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) will expect NR to not only answer what caused the incident also how it was managed, the ORR will expect this quite quickly  

[JayMac]

I agree that comparing road incidents with rail ones isn't that helpful. Neither though is comparing rail incidents to cats stuck in trees. 

[chrisr_75]

it may have been uncomfortable on the train but down on the track the risk of serious injury is very high. 

I think you are trivialising this a little. An hour so or maybe is uncomfortable, but 4-5 hours stuck in a sealed tin box with no cooling & limited water could be extremely problematic for a diabetic, someone with cardio-pulmonary problems, a claustrophobic, a pregnant woman and so on.

It's not possible to compare this with an incident on a motorway - on the railway you can simply stop everything moving, whereas it's virtually impossible to stop the buildup of traffic at an incident on a motorway.

[Puffing Billy]

I guess NR^» (Network Rail - home page) could have an army of rapid response personnel ...

I think this is slightly missing the point; I am not disputing so much whether the train/track companies should always be able to deal with this sort of incident themselves (although they could certainly do better), or whether they should call on the emergency services - rather I am saying that it should not take long to establish that an incident has occurred which MAY last several hours; at THAT point, if (a big "if) they have done everything they can, they should immediately call out the emergency services, not waste time trying to muddle through. If the emergency services end up being stood down because the incident has been resolved quicker than expected, so be it - a small percentage of cancelled callouts is not unreasonable.

[ChrisB]

Errr....and a BIG fire threatening workers/terrorist outrage takes place while pax are on trains?....sorry, I know where I'd want the emergency services

[patch38]

It's not possible to compare this with an incident on a motorway - on the railway you can simply stop everything moving, whereas it's virtually impossible to stop the buildup of traffic at an incident on a motorway.

It's traffic build-up that scuppers even the best contingency plans. Highways England were very quick to implement the official diversionary route (A419 - B4192 - A4 - M4j14) yesterday. It is well signed on the ground and it was well-promoted on local and national radio, VMS on the M4 itself and on the web. But that route just can't take that sustained extra traffic load. Add in the 'unauthorized' alternatives (A346, C142, B4000 etc.), plus people slavishly following sat-nav and doubtless ending up in some very interesting places, and grid-lock occurs very rapidly as more and more traffic tries to feed into what is effectively a blocked system. The analogy with rail would be the photos we saw of passengers crammed onto platforms and bridges. So there are similarities!

[broadgage]

...........so basically the contingency plan consists of "call 999" - I bet the emergency services are delighted - thank God there were no major fires in the area..........and 4 hours for people to be stranded in an overcrowded, overheated environment without adequate water or basic facilities sounds like a long time to me.

The M4 was closed near Swindon due to an accident yesterday and drivers were delayed.  No as much as 4 hours, but there was chaos in Swindon. There have been similar incidents on the M4 when cars were trapped for 4-5 hours.  So do the Highways Agency Highways England have an army of people on standby to deal with these incidents? No.

In the last few years they have recruited a few Traffic Officers who can deal with minor incidents - but otherwise they rely on the emergency services.  Why should Network Rail be any different?

Not at all comparable.
Those stuck in cars can open the windows for fresh air, open the doors to stretch their legs, or run the vehicle engine to provide heating, cooling, lighting or power electronic entertainments.
Also those in cars get a seat, on a train this is optional with new designs being optimised for standing.
Many motorists prudently keep bottled water, snacks, and a coat or blanket in cases of breakdown of their vehicle, or other prolonged delay.

[paul7575]

I guess NR^» (Network Rail - home page) could have an army of rapid response personnel, couple of questions though?


How many in these teams?
What equipment would they need?
Where would you base them?
How will these teams of 'Hot Standby's' be paid for?

They could not be deployed on any other duties because if they were needed and they were busy doing something else everyone would scream what a waste of money. 

London Underground's Emergency Response Unit (ERU) has people on permanent standby or training for response to accidents, and AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) within central London, NR have an agreement to use them for mainline emergencies as well.   I suppose if you are trained and equipped to deal with an incident in a tunnel, anything else is relatively straightforward.   ERU have done re-railing of SWT^▸ (South West Trains) trains before after derailment, so there must be an agreement for that as well, rather than using the national re-railing teams provided by DBS^» (Deutsch Bahn Schenker - UK^▸ (United Kingdom) website).

Perhaps NR/LU have got together and found that using LU's existing expertise is better than trying to duplicate it?

****

In the general case of incidents like this, when people report via twitter that they've been stuck on the train for X hours - are they usually including the time taken to get there?   So add the time spent on normal travel from the south coast to the incident time?  Some of the 5 or 6 hours reported will probably reduce once the analysis is done, but the right figures won't make the headlines...

Paul

[Puffing Billy]

Errr....and a BIG fire threatening workers/terrorist outrage takes place while pax are on trains?....sorry, I know where I'd want the emergency services

Well, the convenient terrorist attack could just as well take place hours later when the rail companies have finally decided to stop wasting time, and called out the emergency services anyway. And it is not as if you need half the police force to deal with a broken-down train or two - the police would no doubt provide enough staff to supervise, while they would delegate such work as necessary to people with the necessary skills and equipment, like plant hire companies. I have faith in the emergency services to assess, delegate, scale the operation up or down as necessary without compromising their ability to deal with any other incident that happens to occur at the same time.

[ChrisB]

Indeed.

One tweet said he *left* Brighton at just before 6 & was still on the train at 1130....so about 4 hours in discomfort possibly, not 5+ as the press that picked this up made out. Still not comfortable though.