Today's MAJOR failure (30/04/15)

[whole diary]

[Tim]

, the trackside is a hostile environment even for seasoned and well equipped railway staff; disembarking passengers is the last resort it may have been uncomfortable on the train but down on the track the risk of serious injury is very high.

Although the track environment becomes much less hostile once live conductor rails and moving trains are taken out of the equation. Although presumably once you have passengers trackside you potentially delay getting power back on and trains moving again.  

The hotel power donkey engine in the IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) is a good idea.  It will not be infallible though and I would hope that there are also an option for emergency window opening or if not, a procedure for say opening a door but using a staff member or some kind of physical barrier to prevent people getting off.    

[TaplowGreen]

I agree that comparing road incidents with rail ones isn't that helpful. Neither though is comparing rail incidents to cats stuck in trees. 

The question was asked further up the thread as to whether a charge would be levied against NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) for utilising the emergency services in a non emergency situation - I was using the example of a cat stuck up a tree as a scenario where the caller could be charged by the Emergency services for their assistance, I wasn't being flippant.........although I did once rescue an unwilling cat from a tree and afterwards looked like I'd been savaged by a tiger so I guess it could go either way!!!  

[Tim]

I agree that comparing road incidents with rail ones isn't that helpful. Neither though is comparing rail incidents to cats stuck in trees. 

The question was asked further up the thread as to whether a charge would be levied against NR^» (Network Rail - home page)/TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) for utilising the emergency services in a non emergency situation - I was using the example of a cat stuck up a tree as a scenario where the caller could be charged by the Emergency services for their assistance, I wasn't being flippant.........although I did once rescue an unwilling cat from a tree and afterwards looked like I'd been savaged by a tiger so I guess it could go either way!!!  

The rail industry is enough of a money go round anyway.  NR is a public body paid for by the tax payer.  So are the emergency services.  Is there an overall net benefit of one public body sending an invoice to another?  Unless it results in a tax cut or an improvement to public services I'd suggest that it would be a pointless exercise.   

[ChrisB]

Fire Service is paid through Council Tax whereas NR^» (Network Rail - home page) is via general taxation (although isn't it actually making a profit now?)

So, you could nominally get a higher council tax (or council cuts elsewhere) is not refunded by NR

[Electric train]

LU first responders to an incident are BTP^▸ (British Transport Police) and LFB, the ERU back this up.  The ERU is not a big team.

The track is a hostile environment even without live third rail and when trains have stopped, the ground is uneven, loose cable trough lids, cables, walking on ballast even with safety boots on is not easy with street shoes there is a high injury risk (this not mamby pamby 'elf n safety its from bitter experience).

I am sure question will be asked by the ORR^» (Office of Rail and Road formerly Office of Rail Regulation - about) why passengers were left on a stranded train for so long.   

[jane s]

Would prefer to take my chances on the tracks than be trapped on the train personally (provided of course that the power was turned off)- I think 2 hours is the maximum time anyone should have been left trapped in these conditions before evacuating the train, or at least giving people an option of whether to walk to the nearest bus stop or wait it out. (if the more impatient/intrepid had been given the chance to walk, conditions would be much better on the train for the remainder!)

[stuving]

If this story is to be believed, the sequence of events wasn't as I understood it. Only one train was evacuated to trackside, and that was close to an exit gate onto Wandsworth Common, so marshalling and walking time were not big issues. Before that about six trains were recovered to stations under their own power, and one needed a locomotive but was also moved with its passengers on board. Only then was the last train found to be unmovable, and the power removed, hence its passengers had to stay on board until then.

So it comes down to whether there is an exceptional reason for that to take 5 hours, or whether it did but shouldn't. It might have been a very hot day, so whatever the plan says has to be able to meet the time limit set on that basis.

But note that "if" at the start.

[dviner]

Would prefer to take my chances on the tracks than be trapped on the train personally

At which point, you would become part of the problem, rather than providing a solution.

[Worcester_Passenger]

The small diesel engine makes sound sense.

Several years ago, I was taken round one of the Belgian trolleybus systems. Each of the trolleybuses had such a diesel engine. Not particularly for use in the case of a loss of power, but for use within the depot. Instead of installing a lot of overhead, they'd simply put a loop round the depot. The buses arrived and left under overhead power, but then moved round the depot using their diesel engines. There's a trade-off here : the buses were more expensive, but they'd saved on the costs of stringing the overhead.

Would this same logic apply to rail vehicles and depots? I could see it simplifying the operation of carriage washers!