Maidenhead station: where is the common sense gone?

[whole diary]

[froggycat]

What is it with passengers at Maidenhead station? I sometimes take the 8:19 from Reading for Maidenhead. Getting off that train always feels like such a fight: I have never seen passengers stuck on mass in front of the carriage doors not letting people off the train anywhere else in the country.
Has there been a common-sense bypass for all people getting on trains in Maidenhead? Surely making sure you leave a clear passage for people to get off would ensure a much quicker run of trains. Seems really odd to me. Any explanation welcome.
I read once in a survey that Maidenhead was the second worst station in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom). I am sure this is one of the contributing factors for this classification.

[grahame]

Your first post, Froggycat?     Welcome to the forum!

I suspect the answer might be lie in a dive for seats ... with only some joiners being "lucky".   Thinking about it, I'm far more fussed to get on as soon as I can (London - Bristol services) at Paddington than I am at Bristol.   I know I'll get a seat from Bristol, I know I'll be lucky (or have to be fast) to get a seat at Paddington.

[NickB]

Yes, as a Maidenhead commuter (not that train though!, although I did take it once last week) its all about the lack of fast services to London and about the trains that are scheduled being short.

The 08.35 Maid->Padd (which I believe is the train you refer to?) is 3 carriages and yet is the first fast train since 8am and the last until 09.08.  Essentialy, if you do a school drop of need to be at work anything near 9/9.30 then this is the train for you.

 

[jane s]

Hi Froggycat,

If you think that's bad you should try getting on a train home from Ealing Broadway in the evenings!

The announcer constantly shouts "Please allow passengers OFF the train before attempting to board! Once you are on board, please move right down inside the carriages, do NOT stand near the doors blocking the doors!" but there are always certain passengers that take not a blind bit of notice, barging their way on to the train while people are still getting off, and then proceeding to stand in the lobby blocking the way for the rest of us who do want to move down inside because unlike them, we are not getting off at the next couple of stops!

The best bet at that time at Maidenhead is to wait for the 8:41 (which usually leaves from Platform 5) - yes it is only a semi-fast, stopping at Slough & Southall, but you will at least get a seat.

No idea why they only have 3 cars on the fast trains from Maidenhead in the mornings, IMO^▸ (in my opinion) it is completely ridiculous.

[eightf48544]

No idea why they only have 3 cars on the fast trains from Maidenhead in the mornings, IMO^▸ (in my opinion) it is completely ridiculous.

Too many people wanting to travel at the same time and a National shortage of rolling stock especially DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).

[TaplowGreen]

No idea why they only have 3 cars on the fast trains from Maidenhead in the mornings, IMO^▸ (in my opinion) it is completely ridiculous.

Too many people wanting to travel at the same time and a National shortage of rolling stock especially DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit).

......and too many regularly breaking down!

I don't think you can really blame "too many" people wanting to travel, there tends to be a correlation with when their employers expect them to turn up at work! Blame the people who got the estimates for demand hugely wrong in the first place!

Agree re both Maidenhead and Ealing B when it comes to people getting on/off though, I've commuted to/from both over the years and 'twas ever thus, seems to be worse than anywhere else.

[grahame]

People getting on before allowing people off are breaking the byelaws
Railway Byelaws:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf

10.1 No person shall enter through any train door until any person leaving by that door has passed through.

and

Any person who breaches any of these Byelaws commits an offence and, with the exception of Byelaw 17, may be liable for each such offence to a penalty not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

Any person who is reasonably believed by an authorised person to be in breach of any of these Byelaws shall leave the railway immediately if asked to do so by an authorised person.

So you could get the railway staff to throw the early borders off the train and out of the station!  In theory, of course!

[ellendune]

I don't think you can really blame "too many" people wanting to travel, there tends to be a correlation with when their employers expect them to turn up at work! Blame the people who got the estimates for demand hugely wrong in the first place!

Further questions come to mind:

1) was there not a time when they all did fit into a 3 car dmu?
2) why so many more people want to travel that journey to work than previously? 
3) I am sure several different bodies made estimates.
     a) Were they wrong?
     b) Could any of them have actually done something about making more capacity?
     c) If so who?

[grahame]

3) I am sure several different bodies made estimates.
     a) Were they wrong?

Estimates for the 2005 - 2012 franchise period were based on 0.8% growth compound, whereas 8% growth compound was what happened (ball park figures across the South West).  Follow on shorter term franchises have been based on "carry on with the same".

To give you an idea, 100 passenger at 0.8% over 8 years will take you up to 108 passengers, but at 8% growth takes you up to 215 passengers - in other words trains are carrying twice what was planned for.   For sure, the Adelantes have come back and 2+7 have become 2+8;  Cardiff - Portsmouth has been re-increased from 2 to 3 cars and more stock brought into the area, but certainly there's not been a doubling.   Something IS being done - Crossrail, electrification - but that's not yet on stream.

[TaplowGreen]

3) I am sure several different bodies made estimates.
     a) Were they wrong?

Estimates for the 2005 - 2012 franchise period were based on 0.8% growth compound, whereas 8% growth compound was what happened (ball park figures across the South West).  Follow on shorter term franchises have been based on "carry on with the same".

To give you an idea, 100 passenger at 0.8% over 8 years will take you up to 108 passengers, but at 8% growth takes you up to 215 passengers - in other words trains are carrying twice what was planned for.   For sure, the Adelantes have come back and 2+7 have become 2+8;  Cardiff - Portsmouth has been re-increased from 2 to 3 cars and more stock brought into the area, but certainly there's not been a doubling.   Something IS being done - Crossrail, electrification - but that's not yet on stream.

That's very interesting Grahame - so really all the "additional" capacity coming via Crossrail, IEP^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) etc is only really going to be having the effect of running to stand still......does anyone really think that everyone will get a seat once these new trains arrive? And how long (if the 8% growth continues, more likely to increase I would have thought?) will it be before we are once again as chronically overcrowded as we are now?

[grahame]

Take a look at these growth graphs ... various south west / FGW^▸ (First Great Western) territory areas:

http://www.wellho.net/demo/railuse.php?place=BS

http://www.wellho.net/demo/railuse.php?place=SL

http://www.wellho.net/demo/railuse.php?place=OX

http://www.wellho.net/demo/railuse.php?place=TR

[ellendune]

The 8% compound growth at the London end is related partly to the growth in the economy of London and the lack of or unaffordability of housing in London. As a result of this politicians were encouraged to put more investment into London's infrastructure.  However unless the housing issue is resolved the problem just moves further and further out.  

In other areas changing work patterns, particularly with two earners per household, when people change jobs they do not move, they simply commute further and further.  This travelling reduces their quality of life and ultimately, I suspect, their productivity.

We cannot and should not stop people who want to commute long distances. We could keep adding more and more capacity but at some point we are going to have to start to address the root causes that lead to so many people travelling ever further each day to work.

 

[grahame]

The top one of my graphs is the one I'm most familiar with - the Bristol area.   The others may not be quite as high - still 4% to 6% compound growth, though!

Over the period of the last Franchise only ONE station with a BS postcode failed to grow at above the predicated rate, and that was Pilning; the failure to grow traffic there isn't (in my view) particularly significant in the overall picture, but perhaps it does provide a control / reminder of the results you gat from a station with an ineffective service / no nurtured traffic flows.

It's been suggested that "growth like this won't go on for ever" and indeed there are *some* signs of the increase rate coming down.   The recession, perversely, may have increased the gain as people had to travel further to work and could afford fewer private cars per family ... I'm not an economist, so I may be talking / repeating a load of cobblers.

[NickB]

If my memory serves me correctly the anticipated growth at Maidenhead between 'now' and crossrail is 1m journeys.

That's approx an extra 2000 passengers every work day.

[johoare]

Further questions come to mind:

1) was there not a time when they all did fit into a 3 car dmu?

It used to be 5 carriages for quite a while.. They "borrowed" the extra carriages at least a couple of years ago (if not before that) to give to another train.. No sign of them coming back yet