Maidenhead station: where is the common sense gone?

[whole diary]

[IndustryInsider]

does anyone really think that everyone will get a seat once these new trains arrive?

I don't think anyone who understands how a metro style railway works would expect that, no.  The large standing capacity being built into the Crossrail trains hints at that.

What I would expect is for the extra trains and longer trains to make a significant impact on commuting from Maidenhead as you should be getting 8/9 carriage trains for every service in the peak (and most outside of the peak).  Within central London and out as far as West Drayton I would expect standing passengers within the peaks still - but not at the silly crush levels they are at now.

[stuving]

does anyone really think that everyone will get a seat once these new trains arrive?

I don't think anyone who understands how a metro style railway works would expect that, no.  The large standing capacity being built into the Crossrail trains hints at that.

What I would expect is for the extra trains and longer trains to make a significant impact on commuting from Maidenhead as you should be getting 8/9 carriage trains for every service in the peak (and most outside of the peak).  Within central London and out as far as West Drayton I would expect standing passengers within the peaks still - but not at the silly crush levels they are at now.

Is there still a 20 minute limit on "acceptable" standing for Crossrail? And if so, where is it to be measured to? Obviously not Paddington, but at least Liverpool Street. And that's 31 minutes from West Drayton (allegedly).

[paul7575]

I don't think anyone who understands how a metro style railway works would expect that, no.  The large standing capacity being built into the Crossrail trains hints at that.

I'm thinking that people who aren't quite sure will still be convinced to expect a seat by the regular witterings in the (Evening) Standard's leaders...

Paul

[paul7575]

Is there still a 20 minute limit on "acceptable" standing for Crossrail? And if so, where is it to be measured to? Obviously not Paddington, but at least Liverpool Street. And that's 31 minutes from West Drayton (allegedly).

The rule is that where stations are less than 20 mins apart then there is an allowance for standing.  If stations are more than 20 mins apart then there is no allowance.  It isn't written as a '20 minute limit' on standing, AFAICS^▸ (As Far As I Can See).

However the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about)'s regular overcrowding report mentions in the small print that the rule only applies to franchises that they let - so it may not apply to Crossrail at all...

Paul

[ChrisB]

That 20-minute indicator doesn't apply to TfL^» (Transport for London - about) Rail

[grahame]

The 20 minute rule has some interesting side effects - I've quoted from above on the Cardiff -> Portsmouth board where there is one 21 minute section in the middle of the run and it causes (technically) a capacity bottleneck just in that section.

See:  http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15772.0

[TaplowGreen]

I don't think anyone who understands how a metro style railway works would expect that, no.  The large standing capacity being built into the Crossrail trains hints at that.

I'm thinking that people who aren't quite sure will still be convinced to expect a seat by the regular witterings in the (Evening) Standard's leaders...

Paul

.........an expectation that the constant crowing about ^7.5 billion of investment, new trains, "Building a Greater West" etc will do much to encourage and little to manage.

[IndustryInsider]

I guess we'll have to see, won't we.  There will be no excuses, in terms of physical capacity, for not running all peak London suburban trains of between 8-9 carriages, and the outer suburban and longer distance ones at 9-12 carriages.

For everyone suggesting that capacity might be quickly used up, there is someone else predicting that the cost of running the new trains will be so much that fares will rise to an extent few people will be able to afford.  I don't subscribe to either of those views, but also think I'm realistic enough to realise that there may be certain trains and certain times of the day when people still won't be able to find a seat.

When the upgrade in its current specification is complete, there's no reason why that has to be the end of improvements to capacity.  For example, Crossrail's underground stations themselves are designed with passive provision for extension of the trains to 240m from the current 200m, and Reading station has been designed to handle large increases in passengers for decades to come.  I hope a similar future-proofing will be made at locations such as Maidenhead and West Drayton during the major track alterations that have started to be constructed to allow for longer trains.  Bringing in those enhancements won't be cheap, but at least will be possible.

[phile]

Back to the alighting and boarding issue, I have often experienced a situation in other parts of the country where people usually do stand back, but after waiting for the flow to disembark, I have found when passing from the vestibule to the carriage itself, somebody who's suddenly woken up trying to force their way through you in their bid to alight.  Rather awkward if more than one and a number of people boarding behind you.

[grahame]

I have found when passing from the vestibule to the carriage itself, somebody who's suddenly woken up trying to force their way through you in their bid to alight. 

And did you realise that by getting on before they got off, you're the one at fault under the railway's bylaws  (10.1):

No person shall enter through any train door until any person leaving by that door has passed through.

from https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/4202/railway-byelaws.pdf

[SirBroccoli]

It used to be 5 carriages for quite a while.. They "borrowed" the extra carriages at least a couple of years ago (if not before that) to give to another train.. No sign of them coming back yet

The main timetable changes section of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) site says that the 08:19 from Reading, 08:35 from Maidenhead, will be 5 carriages from September 7th. It also says that the 17:35 from Paddington will be a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from the same day. Wonder where they got the stock from?

With regards to the question, and I get the 08:19 from Reading at least twice a week so I have experience, I find the passengers at Maidenhead always create a gap to allow people like myself to alight. On the few occasions that someone stray's, they get a bump from me!

[Chris from Nailsea]

An interesting question .. an amusing observation ... and a warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum, SirBroccoli. 

[Western Enterprise]

The main timetable changes section of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) site says that the 08:19 from Reading, 08:35 from Maidenhead, will be 5 carriages from September 7th. It also says that the 17:35 from Paddington will be a HST^▸ (High Speed Train) from the same day. Wonder where they got the stock from?

........ On the few occasions that someone stray's, they get a bump from me!

And a firm "Excuse me!" should do it!

Interesting about the 8.35 getting more carriages. I complained to FGW about it: always being on time at Maidenhead then up to 10 min's late at PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains); crossing from relief to main and then back to relief; plus the coupling up with another unit on P13. That might sort this lot out 

[CJB666]

You are forgetting that many passengers can't understand English. It always amuses me in London on over-crowded buses when the auto-pa asks that pax do not stand on the upper deck or stairs, or could pax. move to the back of the bus to stop blocking the doorway. Most simply ignore the announcement like they can't understand what has been said.

BTW^▸ (by the way) when I'm trying to get off a crowded train (or bus) in which folks stand in my way blocking the door, then the old Continental 'push and shove' works wonders.