Network Rail's electrification upgrade delayed, now restarted, by government

[whole diary]

[Thatcham Crossing]

For me it was only a matter of time before they had to announce that it's not going well.

As far as I can work out (from info released today) we will still get the wires to Newbury?

I guess Bedwyn is completely out of the question now.

[Rapidash]

Fat chance of anything further West than Bristol ever getting sparky then. No doubt  this will stuff up  the cascade plans and the Devon Metro will be lumbered with bloomin' D trains.....

[Timmer]

What was included in the original estimate.  Part of the justification was that the signalling needed replacing anyway and so did the trains so it was not a lot extra. 

Are we comparing the same numbers. 

Good point. This was what was mentioned on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Points West this evening that the estimated cost is now ^7.5bn 7 times more than the estimate in 2009. That is a very general headline figure that makes a good news story without giving detail of what that money is actually buying now compared to when it was announced that the estimated cost would be ^1bn back in 2009.

[Timmer]

Fat chance of anything further West than Bristol ever getting sparky then. No doubt  this will stuff up  the cascade plans and the Devon Metro will be lumbered with bloomin' D trains.....

Yup, I have a feeling that the company behind the D train conversation project is about to receive a lot of orders that most of if not all D stock will be required.

If they come up with a quality product for the right price then why not? Better than overcrowded trains.

[John R]

How was BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) able to electrify virtually the entire East Coast mainline in the 1980's with little fuss and yet despite all our 21st century technology Network Rail are struggling with just a few miles?

I know one answer is staff with the skills are no longer working on the railways.

Paul Clifton mentioned in his report on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) South Today earlier that they are even recruiting from Indian railways.

Wasn't the ECML^▸ (East Coast Main Line) electrification done on the cheap, manifesting itself in the wiring falling apart every time it gets a bit windy?

I seem to recall reading somewhere that the reason the ECML wires fall down more often than the WCML^▸ (West Coast Main Line) is that the southern section of the ECML project was only intended for the suburban services and hence wasn't really up to the job once the wires were extended and 125mph INTERCITY services started using them. Not sure if that's true though.

I doubt it. Everything north of Hitchin was done as part of the Edinburgh scheme, and it seems to be the 4 track headsman section between there and Huntingdon which often comes to pieces. And yes it was done on the cheap - ^300m in 1984 prices which is probably around ^1.2Bn today.  

[Timmer]

In all that was announced today one thing is certain HST^▸ (High Speed Train) lives on on the GW^▸ (Great Western) mainline! If it wasn't already planned, could we see HSTs in the new GW green livery?

It could be a long time before Scotrail see GW HSTs running north of the border. I guess that the IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) being built now for the GW will go to the East Coast first of all as they can handle them being an electrified railway.

[ellendune]

In all that was announced today one thing is certain HST^▸ (High Speed Train) lives on on the GW^▸ (Great Western) mainline! If it wasn't already planned, could we see HSTs in the new GW green livery?

It could be a long time before Scotrail see GW HSTs running north of the border. I guess that the IEPs^▸ (Intercity Express Program / Project.) being built now for the GW will go to the East Coast first of all as they can handle them being an electrified railway.

I don't think that is certain yet.  There does not yet seem to be a race to cut costs at any price and they know they will have to replace the HST's some time soon or do a very major rebuild that is of questionable value. 

I think the certain thing is that things will happen slower. Maybe that is right if, as it seems, we just don't have the skills any more. We need time to relearn the skills on one project before we carry on with others. 

[paul7575]

Haven't the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) got previous form for this, including e.g. Reading re-modelling and station rebuild in the 'electrification costs' in one report a couple of years back?

The latest headline figure is probably GR total route modernisation + rolling stock + Crossrail on network + WRaTH, and even Dawlish avoiding line (highest cost option) and Tavistock.  Oh and then Bristol Metro, Devon Metro, - is there anything else we could round up and include?

Paul

[grahame]

In all that was announced today one thing is certain HST^▸ (High Speed Train) lives on on the GW^▸ (Great Western) mainline! If it wasn't already planned, could we see HSTs in the new GW green livery?

Attachment from FGW^▸ (First Great Western) press ...

[didcotdean]

Reports tonight that the cost of the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) electrification has gone from ^1bn in 2009 to ^7bn now. That's insane! 

The figure quoted on BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Oxford was ^1.7bn which seems a bit more plausible, although still no clarity on exactly what this contains.

[JayMac]

Fat chance of anything further West than Bristol ever getting sparky then.

Err... last time I looked at a map, Cardiff was west of Bristol. 

[Chris from Nailsea]

And so is Swansea. 

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

Cameron quizzed on London-Swansea rail upgrade timescale

David Cameron has been challenged to say whether a project to electrify rail lines between London and Swansea will be completed by 2018.

A newspaper report has suggested the UK^▸ (United Kingdom) government plans to "scale back and axe rail electrification projects".

During Prime Minister's Questions, Mr Cameron told Plaid Cymru MP^▸ (Member of Parliament) Jonathan Edwards that ministers were committed to the London-Swansea scheme. But he said Network Rail needed to get its costs "under control".

Mr Edwards asked: "Can you inform the house and the people of Wales whether it continues to be the policy of your government to complete [the upgrade] to Swansea by 2018 and part-fund the Valley lines?"

Mr Cameron replied: "We're absolutely committed to electrifying the Great Western Main Line to Cardiff, through to Swansea. We're also contributing ^125m to the cost of the wider Valley lines electrification. It's vital that this work goes ahead. We do need to make sure that Network Rail gets its costs under control and has strong leadership in place and we'll make sure those things happen."

[ChrisB]

That was Wednesday, this announcement was Thursday. Suspect pne supercedes the other? I suspect Seansea will get done but as with the other projects, it'll meet a delay

[Chris from Nailsea]

From BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) Wales politics on Thursday:

Great Western rail electrification 'a top priority'

Electrifying the Great Western line is "a top priority", the transport secretary has said, as he announces a rethink of a ^38bn programme to overhaul Britain's railways.

Patrick McLoughlin said Network Rail's five-year plan was being "reset" as it was "costing more and taking longer". Schemes in the Midlands and Yorkshire would be put on hold, he told MPs^▸ (Member of Parliament).

Sir Peter Hendy will become the new chairman of Network Rail in place of Gwynedd-born Richard Parry-Jones.

Mr McLoughin told MPs on Thursday that the planned programme of rail upgrades was being reviewed to "get it back on track".

"Electrification of the Great Western line is a top priority and I want Network Rail to concentrate its efforts on getting that right," he said.

Responding for the Welsh government, Economy Minister Edwina Hart said: "It's got to be kept on budget, it's got to be kept on time because ourselves and industry are desperate to ensure we have the electrification to Swansea. I'm hopeful that this is an absolute commitment with the government, but we will certainly be taking them to task if they deviate."

Wales Office Minister Alun Cairns said he was "pleased to hear the strong commitment to south Wales electrification through to Swansea from the transport secretary today". "This project will transform the lives of people in south Wales by attracting investors, linking businesses to suppliers and connecting people to jobs."

David Cameron had said during Prime Minister's Questions on Tuesday that ministers were "absolutely committed" to the London-Swansea upgrade following a newspaper report that some projects would be shelved.

[grahame]

It really wouldn't make sense (to me) for them to stop short of Oxford, (or Bristol or Cardiff!) and I would suspect that a Swansea phase is fairly safe; don't know enough about outside GW^▸ (Great Western) area to comment on those.  With Oxford and its big passenger flows, it would  seem crazy to turn electric trains back at Didcot which - although growing and planned to do so - ain't no Reading-sized hub.  Of course, you could make Swindon the end of the suburban run, with a Didcot - Oxford shuttle, but somehow I doubt that .