Island Line services, Isle of Wight. General discussion

[whole diary]

[TonyN]

Having sampled the cakes at Yarmouth old station cafe I would alight there for Coffee and cake. Before proceding to the end of the line at Freshwater for lunch.

[Clan Line]

Some moving pictures here.....

https://www.islandecho.co.uk/first-new-train-for-island-line-arrives-on-the-isle-of-wight/

[Electric train]

The trouble is, I guess the nearest convenient rail head with tracks to the dockside is at Lymington, wrong end of the island...back to the drawing board...

Perfectly possible to get a 456 (only current 2 car electric units?) onto an Ugly Ducking and to link up from the jetty at Yarmouth to the old station there ... train to Ningwood, Shalfleet, Calbourne, Carisbrooke and Newport.  456 just about old enough to be considered for The Island.

Errrrrrrrrrrr what's wrong with Portsmouth Harbour Station

[grahame]

Errrrrrrrrrrr what's wrong with Portsmouth Harbour Station

I think we had/have moved away from "serious" for a while 

Convenient tracks to the dockside in Lymington ... PMH ends up at right angles to the high speed cat which couldn't easily take a train and at some height, with lots of station and lounge stuff between the buffers.   Then when you get to Ryde ...

[grahame]

Having sampled the cakes at Yarmouth old station cafe I would alight there for Coffee and cake. Before proceding to the end of the line at Freshwater for lunch.

I'm not sure there was a suggestion of opening that little tail end branch - but (continuing our light hearted Friday) that might be a Parry People Mover candidates - or light rail / tram on to Alum Bay and The Needles?

[eightonedee]

I'm not sure there was a suggestion of opening that little tail end branch - but (continuing our light hearted Friday) that might be a Parry People Mover candidates - or light rail / tram on to Alum Bay and The Needles?

No no no  - we should reinforce Hythe pier, put in a link to the re-opened (by then) Waterside branch to Fawley.....

[Electric train]

They don't seem to be testing these on the Cotswold line before delivery 

Or anywhere on the mainland DC^▸ (Direct Current) network, despite about 6 months of wishful thinking...

Paul

Possibly they do not have all the systems required for main land operation, doubt they have TPS, not sure they even have AWS^▸ (Automatic Warning System); does Isle of Wright use LUL^▸ (London Underground Ltd) trip cock system?

Discussions elsewhere suggests the existing setup does use LU style trainstops/tripcocks, but they?re changing to something more normal, stated to be ?TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System) throughout? in the OJEU PIN for the work.  Does
?TPWS? always include AWS as well?

Paul

Another limiting factor against testing on the mainline is the third rail is the voltage.

The A, C and D stock is 630V rated, when the S -stock was  introduced LUL raised their system voltage to 750V.  NR^» (Network Rail - home page) system is nominally 750V but kept its inner London area at 630V to make it compatible for the D stock on the Richmond branch until the S Stock was introduced when NR raised all of its system to 750V.

The system is nominally 750V but under regen the third rail will rise to just under 900V, regen was not permitted in the inner London area due to the limitations of the D Stock.

I have not heard of any traction power system upgrade on the Island Line,

[stuving]

I have not heard of any traction power system upgrade on the Island Line,

Nor had I - but then I found this, from earlier in the year, in Modern Railways:

At Brading, where a passing loop will be reinstated to allow the operation of an even-interval half-hourly service, the track will be lowered by 500mm to meet double track foot-crossing and Persons with Reduced Mobility (PRM^▸ (Persons with Reduced Mobility)) regulations. The foot crossing on the Shanklin side will be used for Disability Discrimination Act (DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about)) compliant access to the island platform. The track lowering is Network Rail?s responsibility and estimated to cost ?1 million; it is currently unfunded and unbudgeted and now subject to negotiations.

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) will upgrade the power supply at Rowborough and install new conductor rail with some of the existing inefficient negative earth return systems removed. Existing 98lb track will be relaid with 113lb, the whole line tamped to give a better passenger ride and Train Protection and Warning System (TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System)) introduced between Ryde St John?s Road and Sandown.

Note that Network Rail are doing most of the heavy stuff, since the lease to First MTR South Western Railway include maintenance but not major upgrades.

I also found some data on the electrical supply network of IoW, which includes the three NR substations (which are not described as traction supplies but look the right kind of lineside shed for that). This gives the rating of their 33kV supply circuits, but not the DC^▸ (Direct Current) rating:

Ryde St. Johns Substation - 9MVA
Rowborough Substation  ? 15MVA
Sandown Substation ? 22MVA

[Electric train]

I have not heard of any traction power system upgrade on the Island Line,

Nor had I - but then I found this, from earlier in the year, in Modern Railways:

At Brading, where a passing loop will be reinstated to allow the operation of an even-interval half-hourly service, the track will be lowered by 500mm to meet double track foot-crossing and Persons with Reduced Mobility (PRM^▸ (Persons with Reduced Mobility)) regulations. The foot crossing on the Shanklin side will be used for Disability Discrimination Act (DDA^» (Disability Discrimination Act - about)) compliant access to the island platform. The track lowering is Network Rail?s responsibility and estimated to cost ?1 million; it is currently unfunded and unbudgeted and now subject to negotiations.

NR^» (Network Rail - home page) will upgrade the power supply at Rowborough and install new conductor rail with some of the existing inefficient negative earth return systems removed. Existing 98lb track will be relaid with 113lb, the whole line tamped to give a better passenger ride and Train Protection and Warning System (TPWS^▸ (Train Protection and Warning System)) introduced between Ryde St John?s Road and Sandown.

Note that Network Rail are doing most of the heavy stuff, since the lease to First MTR South Western Railway include maintenance but not major upgrades.

I also found some data on the electrical supply network of IoW, which includes the three NR substations (which are not described as traction supplies but look the right kind of lineside shed for that). This gives the rating of their 33kV supply circuits, but not the DC^▸ (Direct Current) rating:

Ryde St. Johns Substation - 9MVA
Rowborough Substation  ? 15MVA
Sandown Substation ? 22MVA

The MVA ratings will be max demand and not a constant load rating, traction loads being peaky in nature requires a high max demand

The typical rectifier rating the Southern Region install now is 3MW class G, smaller 1.5 to 2.5MW are rarely spec now, occasionally 3.5 or 4.25MW are installed.  I would expect there to be 2 rects per sub. (class G is the overload and duty cycle rating e.g. at 100% 150% and 300%)

I find it strange the sizing of Sandown compared to St Johns given the location of the Depot.  Depots have a high berthing load, also it is likely to have the depot domestic (400V) load.

[paul7575]

The 484 units have new traction packages and AC motors as well don?t they?

Paul

[bradshaw]

It has already been out and about. This link from Twitter
https://twitter.com/photographyrue/status/1329959324777582592?s=21

[IndustryInsider]

Blimey, that was quick!

SWR^» (South Western Railway - about) must?ve been really on the ball getting all the certifications ready beforehand.

[stuving]

The 484 units have new traction packages and AC motors as well don?t they?
Paul

Having heard the noise on the video (last post but one) - yes, you can hear the chopper.

As to whether it needs 750 V - I've only seen that said about the battery 230s. It's possible that charging off third rail was not seen as important enough to fit a DC^▸ (Direct Current)-DC converter, so it could only charge off a voltage above the battery's. With no batteries, I'm sure everything has been designed for 750V, rather than have two versions for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and LU. It will work well enough off 630V (or less), of course.

I guess the starting current will be a lot lower with the inverter than the old DC motors, though the peak current draw will now be at higher speeds.

[TonyN]

This must be the only source of power supply that Viva Rail have not tried yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3AlndKQSs6Q

[grahame]

This must be the only source of power supply that Viva Rail have not tried yet.

There are one or two others ...