HSTs bad for Cotswold Line?

[whole diary]

[Btline]

Ok- at Worcester, the 1606 service to Padd was not that unreliable when an Adelante. Compared to normal FGW^▸ (First Great Western) standards, it faired well.

But now it is an HST^▸ (High Speed Train), it seems to be late daily.

The one time it has been a Thames Turbo it has been on time!

Oh dear. I take it that more slack will be put in to the timetable in May then!

(PS I don't always see the train come in if it is late- so in theory it could be an Adelante late, but I doubt it with their superior acceleration and reduced station lag times.)

Why are the HSTs on the Cotswolds "high density" and with Buffet Car and 2 1st class carriages.

On a route with lots of stops and many short platforms, I would have thought they would have binned a few coaches!

[Conner]

Simple answer as to why they don't bin coaches.
They can't.
Why?
Because the HST^▸ (High Speed Train) set will not be exclusively diagrammed on cotswold line.
Most the sets are High-Density. There is not too much difference, just a few more tables. Even the Cornwall HST's are quite often High Density.

[devon_metro]

24 late today.

Nice!

High Density have 84 seats and 2 tables
Low Density had 84 seats and 4 tables

Somebody didn't do their maths!

[Mookiemoo]

Ok- at Worcester, the 1606 service to Padd was not that unreliable when an Adelante. Compared to normal FGW^▸ (First Great Western) standards, it faired well.

But now it is an HST^▸ (High Speed Train), it seems to be late daily.

The one time it has been a Thames Turbo it has been on time!

Oh dear. I take it that more slack will be put in to the timetable in May then!

(PS I don't always see the train come in if it is late- so in theory it could be an Adelante late, but I doubt it with their superior acceleration and reduced station lag times.)

Why are the HSTs on the Cotswolds "high density" and with Buffet Car and 2 1st class carriages.

On a route with lots of stops and many short platforms, I would have thought they would have binned a few coaches!

okay..... as someone with, for a passenger, intimate knowledge of this line (currently pulling into morton on onthe 1722 off paddington)

In rush hours - HST are needed -especially the 2 + buffet first class as there are a lot of cotswolds first classers

Outside of rush hour - I have said here before, Adelantes (or similar) are perfect for this route.

I think there would be an argument for running a HST as far as WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) and then changing onto a Turbo to hereford mind - it tend to be empty from WOS and its only 45 minutes journey (but I think there is some form of politics about having direct services to hereford due to the SAS being stationed there).

But do not even suggest a turbo run the full length of the cotswolds line.  I would happily put up with unreliability than suffer sitting on one of them for (often) 2.5 hours - they are not fit for purpose.

In fact, until december, it was worse for me

The 0548 was a turbo so I could only get the 0635 which sometimes meant getting in too late to get the 1822 but the 1922 diagrammed as a 180 was nearly always a two car 165 and I refuse point blank to get on it - often ended up on the 2022 getting home at half eleven before turning round six hours later to go back. At weekends I always went via newport to ludlow as I could not bear the turbos

Now with the 0545 being a HST, I get that when I can which means I'm often on the 1722 and at worst the 1822.

Please - if ou suggest turbos for this line - try sitting on one for 2.5 hours regularly

[Btline]

Ok- at Worcester, the 1606 service to Padd was not that unreliable when an Adelante. Compared to normal FGW^▸ (First Great Western) standards, it faired well.

But now it is an HST^▸ (High Speed Train), it seems to be late daily.

The one time it has been a Thames Turbo it has been on time!

Oh dear. I take it that more slack will be put in to the timetable in May then!

(PS I don't always see the train come in if it is late- so in theory it could be an Adelante late, but I doubt it with their superior acceleration and reduced station lag times.)

Why are the HSTs on the Cotswolds "high density" and with Buffet Car and 2 1st class carriages.

On a route with lots of stops and many short platforms, I would have thought they would have binned a few coaches!

okay..... as someone with, for a passenger, intimate knowledge of this line (currently pulling into morton on onthe 1722 off paddington)

In rush hours - HST are needed -especially the 2 + buffet first class as there are a lot of cotswolds first classers

Outside of rush hour - I have said here before, Adelantes (or similar) are perfect for this route.

I think there would be an argument for running a HST as far as WOS^» (Worcester Shrub Hill - next trains) and then changing onto a Turbo to hereford mind - it tend to be empty from WOS and its only 45 minutes journey (but I think there is some form of politics about having direct services to hereford due to the SAS being stationed there).

But do not even suggest a turbo run the full length of the cotswolds line.  I would happily put up with unreliability than suffer sitting on one of them for (often) 2.5 hours - they are not fit for purpose.

In fact, until december, it was worse for me

The 0548 was a turbo so I could only get the 0635 which sometimes meant getting in too late to get the 1822 but the 1922 diagrammed as a 180 was nearly always a two car 165 and I refuse point blank to get on it - often ended up on the 2022 getting home at half eleven before turning round six hours later to go back. At weekends I always went via newport to ludlow as I could not bear the turbos

Now with the 0545 being a HST, I get that when I can which means I'm often on the 1722 and at worst the 1822.

Please - if ou suggest turbos for this line - try sitting on one for 2.5 hours regularly

Right:


I know about the Turbos! I was only making a point. i like your idea about Turbo from Worcs onwards though! It would make better use of the stock and reduce delays.

I thought most of the Class 180s only worked on the Cotswold Line (so changing the layout would not matter)!

I would keep the 2 HSTs (full length) from Hereford, and then replace all the rest of the trains with Adelante Lon to Wor, adn ten Turbo Wor to Here.

[Btline]

24 late today.

Nice!

High Density have 84 seats and 2 tables
Low Density had 84 seats and 4 tables

Somebody didn't do their maths!

 

That's bad!

[Conner]

24 late today.

Nice!

High Density have 84 seats and 2 tables
Low Density had 84 seats and 4 tables

Somebody didn't do their maths!

Are you refering to the number of seats it says the carriage has on the outside?
If so look at both ends of the carriage.
It skips numbers on a low-density set. I have no idea why though. Anyone know?

[smokey]

I expect to allow for Reserved seats and the possibilty of low density sets working high density booked services and vice versa the extra few seats in a High density set will not be reservable, and to keep things simple these will be the missing seats in Low density cars.

[willc]

There's nothing wrong with HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) per se on the Cotswold Line, apart from over-generous seating capacity off-peak (and some local promotion of the Cotswold Line Railcard and the train service itself by FGW^▸ (First Great Western) could and should fill more seats) and the seats are needed between Oxford, Reading and London anyway. This section of the journey is where the high-density HST concept was actually first suggested for, by the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) some years back in its Great Western Main Line Route Utilisation Strategy, though I think they envisaged a small, dedicated fleet, rather than every HST that FGW runs.

Most of the delays in recent weeks are rarely down to the trains - of whatever type - and usually seem to be incurred initially between London and Oxford - congestion, worn-out infrastructure, lorries hitting bridges at Hanwell etc, etc. With the way the Cotswold Line timetable is now constructed - trains pass between Oxford station and Wovercot junction, at Shipton or Moreton-in-Marsh, rather than in the middle of the double track section, or at Evesham, a train running only five minutes late starts to affect others straight away. The 06.30 from Paddington and the 17.21 can both mess up several other trains.

The 17.21 can pretty much take out the entire early evening timetable once it is 10 to 15 minutes behind time out of Oxford, due to crossing two trains out of Worcester, which then delay the 17.51 and 18.21 heading the other way. If it's on time, everything seems to slot into place as planned.

While it's easy to talk about keeping Adelantes off-peak, what do we mean by off-peak nowadays? Adelantes barely cope with demand from Cotswold Line stations on busy days on the 08.37 from Worcester, never mind those trying to board at Oxford, and whenever an Adelante has been used recently on the 15.51 from Paddington it is grossly overcrowded well beyond Oxford. That leaves a pretty small 'off-peak' window.

And the 180s really need to go into the workshop en masse to have longstanding faults sorted out properly before they have a long-term future with anyone. I'm sure someone will eventually give them a home (Arriva Wales would seem sensible, since Alstom's staff at Chester depot seem to have got to grips with the 175s at last), but FGW don't want to know any more.

[Lee]

This section of the journey is where the high-density HST^▸ (High Speed Train) concept was actually first suggested for, by the SRA^» (Strategic Rail Authority - about) some years back in its Great Western Main Line Route Utilisation Strategy, though I think they envisaged a small, dedicated fleet, rather than every HST that FGW^▸ (First Great Western) runs.

Here is a link to the Great Western Main Line Route Utilisation Strategy (due to be updated by Network Rail) along with one to a relevant Jacobs franchise report.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/strategyfinance/strategy/greatwesternmainlinerouteuti3510

http://raildocuments.org.uk/gw/cap1.pdf

[Shazz]

it wasnt so long ago that the commuters were complaining about adelantes on the line, it even ended up in parliament...

Hence they got phased out...


You're never happay are you?

[Lee]

I dont remember expressing a view either way. My main concerns are that the smaller stations stay open, and that an appropriate service (ie something a lot better than the current one) is introduced for all the communities along the line.

As to how the above is acheived, I am open to suggestions.

[Btline]

All I am saying, is that punctuality might now be worse than normal.

Of course the main reasons why trains are delayed is the single track (and the time-tabling restraints that go with it).

One solution would be- all trains terminate at Shrub Hill and Oxford, then more trains could pass in the middle of the double track loop (it would also be a better use for stock).

But then there would be outcry (maybe justified) from people West of Worcester, and from all stations about no link to London.

[devon_metro]

Think the first thing the line needs is Advance Purchase fares - can't believe it doesnt have them!"!!

[Jim]

Think the first thing the line needs is Advance Purchase fares - can't believe it doesnt have them!"!!

Generally speaking, if CDR^▸ (Off Peak Day Return [ticket type] (formerly 'Cheap Day'))'s are available, AP isn't.