Rugby World Cup - underestimated number of fans

[whole diary]

[didcotdean]

Having read through some of the travel plans provided by RWC2015, for Twickenham they are explicit that they were expecting to take 2 hours to clear the stadium by train and the bus services. There is no equivalent indication for Cardiff, whereas the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) announcements suggest this as around 3 hours. There is of course the 'suggestion' to stay the night. They don't have a clearance time for Wembley either, but they can shift everyone at an event usually in 90 minutes. If it had been stated that it may take 3 hours to leave expectations may have been different.

One other difference is that Twickenham has a decentralised approach of taking people by bus to a scattering of different rail/tube stations, rather than everything being funnelled through a single station (with Wembley and Stadium having multiple options within walking distance). This may well not be feasible in Cardiff.

[phile]

Having read through some of the travel plans provided by RWC2015, for Twickenham they are explicit that they were expecting to take 2 hours to clear the stadium by train and the bus services. There is no equivalent indication for Cardiff, whereas the ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) announcements suggest this as around 3 hours. There is of course the 'suggestion' to stay the night. They don't have a clearance time for Wembley either, but they can shift everyone at an event usually in 90 minutes. If it had been stated that it may take 3 hours to leave expectations may have been different.

One other difference is that Twickenham has a decentralised approach of taking people by bus to a scattering of different rail/tube stations, rather than everything being funnelled through a single station (with Wembley and Stadium having multiple options within walking distance). This may well not be feasible in Cardiff.

Using other stations is an option for Twickenham which does not exist at Cardiff.  There are far more stations in the Twickenham area and being electric trains have longer platforms to accommodate.   The only possible suitable station near Cardiff is Newport, but there again, could it accommodate the additionals and keep the normal trains flowing as well.

[Rhydgaled]

One other difference is that Twickenham has a decentralised approach of taking people by bus to a scattering of different rail/tube stations, rather than everything being funnelled through a single station (with Wembley and Stadium having multiple options within walking distance). This may well not be feasible in Cardiff.

In Cardiff, rather than use multiple stations I believe they have decided they have to close Cardiff Queen Street station on match days. Is this just because ValleyLines services would already be full with passengers who boarded at Cardiff Central anyway?

[didcotdean]

Those taken by bus to Bristol Parkway seem to have taken two hours to do the journey.

[simonw]

Surely the South Wales Metro plans, if they are ever delivered, would have helped.

Having been stuck in Cardiff twice in ten years, I think the Welsh Government, Cardiff Council, Millenium Stadium and FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/Arrivia need to seriously do something to improve transport.  

[IndustryInsider]

suffice to say it's been chaos again today for those travelling to Cardiff for the match, overcrowding to the extent that customers have been wedging themselves in luggage racks as there wasn't even enough room to stand on some trains.........looks like it won't be much better afterwards......

I assume, judging from the lack of reports in the press and the twitter feeds of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) and ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))), that it wasn't actually too bad at all last night?

[basset44]

Hi All,

Never understood why Cardiff Queen Street closes, I think it was safety concerns but they spent millions on Queen Street including a new platform but it still closes for events.

A bit of planning by ATW^▸ (Arriva Trains Wales (former TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company))) could at least run some trains from Queen Street if only up the Rhymney Valley taking some crowds from Cardiff Central but of course this would mean staffing Queen Street. which cost.

[broadgage]

Here is a suggestion for handling the crowds in future years.

Fairly soon, the new SETs^▸ (Super Express Train (now IET)) will start to enter service. Some of the presently used HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) will be used elsewhere, but others are expected to be scrapped.

Why not retain some HSTs for peaks and special events ? they are a proven design and are a go (almost) anywhere train. Many services that are normally operated by short DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit) could benefit from an HST at busy times, and of course the DMUs thereby freed up could be used to lengthen other services.

I am thinking not just about rugby matches at Cardiff, but also other major sporting or cultural events, Christmas holidays, Easter, beginning/ends of university terms, bank holiday weekends, and all the other times when overcrowding occurs.
New trains are hugely expensive and therefore tend to be obtained in numbers and train lengths that are just barely adequate (or often a bit inadequate) whilst times are normal. Any extra demand results in the sort of problems seen recently.

The economics of obtaining additional new trains for peaks are very doubtful, which is why we have the policy of just barely adequate provision.

The purchase cost of trains that would otherwise be scrapped should be far more affordable.

Extra rolling stock is also most useful at times of extreme weather or breakdowns, when delays to an inward bound train results in the cancellation of the return working. A spare train can result in a departure from say Paddington running as normal despite the incoming service being delayed.

[ChrisB]

You paying to keep them maintained & drivers/guards trained? Coz I'm not

[Timmer]

I think private charter companies such as Riveira Trains will take any spare HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) going that can be hired out when required. I have a feeling though that all spare HSTs after Scotrail have theirs will all be put back into frontline service. They are just too valuable to scrap.

[chrisr_75]

One other difference is that Twickenham has a decentralised approach of taking people by bus to a scattering of different rail/tube stations, rather than everything being funnelled through a single station (with Wembley and Stadium having multiple options within walking distance). This may well not be feasible in Cardiff.

In Cardiff, rather than use multiple stations I believe they have decided they have to close Cardiff Queen Street station on match days. Is this just because ValleyLines services would already be full with passengers who boarded at Cardiff Central anyway?

It's because all/most* of the trains that pass through Cardiff Queen St, have a previous stop at Central, from where on match days they would be full and standing.

It's just easier to funnel everyone through Central. Closing QS presumably also frees up a few extra staff from there to help with the queuing system etc. at Central.

As I recall, QS does not have the luxury of a large open area at the front of the station for managing crowds either.

* delete as applicable, I can't recall if there are some trains that go direct to QS without passing through Central.

[Rhydgaled]

I can't recall if there are some trains that go direct to QS without passing through Central.

Only the Cardiff Bay branch line I think

I think private charter companies such as Riveira Trains will take any spare HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) going that can be hired out when required.

Of course, from posts above it sounds like Riviera trains are providing mark 2 rolling stock for extra services in connection with rugby world cup matches this year. In future though, I wonder if this will be permissable given the introduction of PRM^▸ (Persons with Reduced Mobility) TSI laws in 2020. IC125s might be newer than mark 2s, but it would still be hugely expensive to make them compliant with the new regulations. Heritage charters might get an exemption, but crowd-buster extra services on the day-to-day railway might have to comply.

PRM TSI = Persons of Reduced Mobility Technical Specification for Interoprability, I believe.

[phile]

The prime reason for closure of Queen St is Safety.   Especially with some platforms narrow in places, the numbers could not be accommodated. 

[TaplowGreen]

Timmer I owe you an apology - you were right - last train to Cardiff leaves Paddington at 10pm.......just as the final whistle will be blowing at Twickenham.....expect to see some very unhappy Welshmen in London tomorrow night, especially after they've lost to England, being unable to get home will just rub salt into their wounds!

[ChrisB]

Why? They'll have known about this from when they booked their mstch tickets that there was no way home afterwards by train..so alternative arrangements will have already been made.

Anyone caught out shouldn't simply have assumed without checking frankly