What happens if train delay causes customer to miss last train home?

[whole diary]

[PhilWakely]

Many of you will have read elsewhere on this forum of my trip with fellow forum member Adelante_CCT to Elstree for a recording of the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) programme, QI. You will have read of the fun and games encountered on the return leg of the trip. Thankfully, I managed to catch the sleeper back to Exeter by the skin of my teeth, but, as Adelante_CCT will testify, I was seriously concerned about the possibility of missing that last train home and then having to fork out again for a walk up single first thing in the morning.

I was travelling on an Advance Single from Elstree & Borehamwood to Exeter St Davids booked onto the 22:14 Elstree to City Thameslink and 23:45 sleeper London Paddington to Exeter.  Because of an earlier broken down train, the 22:14 was cancelled and the following 22:44 was running some 10 minutes late.

Purely as a matter of interest, if I had missed the sleeper because of the delay on the Thameslink leg, would I have been entitled to a 'free pass' on the next available GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) service from PAD^» (Paddington (London) - next trains)-EXD^» (Exeter St Davids - next trains)?; would I have had to fork out for another (much more expensive) single and claim compensation (presumably from Thameslink)?; or would I have had to fork out for another single and not be able to claim any compensation?

No, this is not a RPO exam question       I am just curious!

[TaplowGreen]

As failures on "the railway" were the cause of your delay (ie through no fault of your own), surely they would have been obliged to arrange transport from Paddington as you'd missed the last train or arrange accomodation, they couldn't just leave you wandering around West London all night..................could they?

I've heard of people (on here I think) being put into taxis for odysees to Wales/the Westcountry.

[ChrisB]

City Thameslink? Farringdon would be far far better!

Assuming that the booked arrival of the 2214 gave you enough time to connect with the Paddington 2345 (what's the minimum connection time between those London Termini?) which the Advance would suggest it was....you would have been entitled to guaranteed onward travel/accommodation

You would definitely have needed to get your ticket endorsed by the staff @ Elstree (if they were still there?) or the crew on the 2245 or TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) staff at your London change station (I would have changed at St Pancras to get that if I hadn't already got that confirm/endorsement as there are o TOC staff at Farringdon/City Thameslink) to show that the booked train was cancelled. Without that, at that time of night, would have caused serious onward delay.

Then you'd have had to attempt catching the 2345....but return to St Pancras in order to get accommodation sorted as GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) would not have sorted you out. Thameslink (I assume?) were the responsible TOC....yes, accommodation & a pass for a morning train I would expect, but it wouldn't have been without a fight I suspect to get what you were owed.

[readytostart]

It would be up to the delaying company to arrange onward transport or overnight accommodation, in this situation a hotel would probably have been their first idea. As you were delayed, the Advance ticket would have been valid on the next available (morning) service.

Recently had a couple arriving into Edinburgh on St Ives (Cornwall) to Aberdeen tickets, many phonecalls later GWRs^▸ (Great Western Railway) first offer was a hotel in Edinburgh and we ended up compromising on the last stopper to Dundee and a taxi for the rest of the way.

[Oxman]

I used to deal with this sort of thing when I was  Duty Manager at Reading. In general, when the railway is at fault and the last connection is missed, its up to whoever is representing the railway to sort out an arrangement which is agreeable to the customer. In most cases, this will be a taxi to the final destination (the longest I ever arranged was Reading to Bodmin), or accommodation and onward travel by train the next day.

It should not have been necessary to have your ticket endorsed by someone at a Thameslink station. When you get to Paddington, you ask to see the Duty Manager. He/she will ask to see your tickets and check that you have a valid journey plan. He/she will then ring the Control of the ToC responsible for the delay. Control can confirm that there was indeed a cancellation/delay and that its company is therefore responsible. Usually Control authorises a taxi which is arranged by the DM and the cost is subsequently cross charged to the ToC that caused the delay. If it is a long journey, then a hotel may be offered. Again the DM would book and arrange the cross charge. Finally, the DM will endorse the tickets for travel the next day if required.

Working nights at Reading, I would probably arrange taxis on average maybe six times a week? Some weeks were better than others. You could find yourself talking to ToC controls all over the country to chase down the root cause of a delay to a customer. The only time I can recall being refused authority by a ToC was after a rugby match at Twickenham and some 20 fans from Taunton missed their last train, after the train from Twickenham was delayed. SWT^▸ (South West Trains) declared that it would not be responsible for delays caused by major sporting events - and it is probably not alone in that respect. I sent the fans on to Bristol, and a very nice DM there said he would take care of them!

[ChrisB]

It should not have been necessary to have your ticket endorsed by someone at a Thameslink station.

Agreed, but in a lifetime experience, I've often come up against the delaying TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) refusing to accept that there's been a delay....in this case, I doubt it as the train was very obviously cancelled, but a connection can be missed with a 20-30 minute delay, when connectional times can be 10mins or so....say at Reading :-)....and an endorsed ticket is extremely difficult to argue against. I would recommend always getting it done wherever possible....see it as a guarantee

[Worcester_Passenger]

We experienced this earlier this month on a journey from Frankfurt to Innsbruck, travelling on trains provided by DB^» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) (to Munich), Meridian (to Kufstein) and OBB, expecting to arrive just before midnight.

DB left Frankfurt 45 minutes late ("waiting for a driver") and lost more time. It became apparent that we weren't going to make the 38-minute connection.

I spoke to the guard as he came through our coach. He looks at various things on his smartphone, which has a real-time capability whereby he can specify start station as being this train (ICE 725). Eventually decides that there's no other possible connection. "Come with me to my office" (next to the buffet). Where he stamps our e-tickets and tells us to talk to the information desk at Munich.

Noticeable that he didn't do a count of how many people need connections/taxis to where (as I'd expect to happen over here).

At Munich our connection has indeed gone. But the lady behind the information desk spends some time in finding us a hotel for the night. Not easy - it's the Oktoberfest (so goodness knows how much this cost DB). And endorses our tickets for onward travel in the morning.

[PhilWakely]

City Thameslink? Farringdon would be far far better!

Assuming that the booked arrival of the 2214 gave you enough time to connect with the Paddington 2345 (what's the minimum connection time between those London Termini?) which the Advance would suggest it was....you would have been entitled to guaranteed onward travel/accommodation

You would definitely have needed to get your ticket endorsed by the staff @ Elstree (if they were still there?) or the crew on the 2245 or TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) staff at your London change station (I would have changed at St Pancras to get that if I hadn't already got that confirm/endorsement as there are o TOC staff at Farringdon/City Thameslink) to show that the booked train was cancelled. Without that, at that time of night, would have caused serious onward delay.

Then you'd have had to attempt catching the 2345....but return to St Pancras in order to get accommodation sorted as GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) would not have sorted you out. Thameslink (I assume?) were the responsible TOC....yes, accommodation & a pass for a morning train I would expect, but it wouldn't have been without a fight I suspect to get what you were owed.

Exactly as I would have expected having had time to think. Thankfully though not required as I made the 2345 by the skin of my teeth. However, it is easy to consider this in the cold light of day, but at the time - in the mad rush - probably the last thing on my mind and would only have thought about it some while after the 2345 had left.

Although the travel plan suggested City Thameslink, we were heading originally for Farringdon  - then decided to sprint through St Pancras

[TaplowGreen]

Working nights at Reading, I would probably arrange taxis on average maybe six times a week? Some weeks were better than others. You could find yourself talking to ToC controls all over the country to chase down the root cause of a delay to a customer. The only time I can recall being refused authority by a ToC was after a rugby match at Twickenham and some 20 fans from Taunton missed their last train, after the train from Twickenham was delayed. SWT^▸ (South West Trains) declared that it would not be responsible for delays caused by major sporting events - and it is probably not alone in that respect. I sent the fans on to Bristol, and a very nice DM there said he would take care of them!

I hate to think what would have happened if they'd been soccer fans who'd been on the ale all day and got that response - well done for sorting them out as far as Bristol!

[Adelante_CCT]

Yes, there was a guy at Elstree who initially was giving out incorrect information (fortunately I was on-hand with a variety of sources to inform him and other passengers as to what was happening), the 22:44 was also temporarily cancelled which may have run later whilst we caught a 'fast' which was doing special stops at all intermediate stations.

Not sure if there was a crew member on the train (wasn't looking for one tbh, (driver excluded.)) and had we hung around at STP to find a member of staff, that would have infact cost Phil the connection for the sleeper.

Fortunately a 400m sprint across STP in a time Michael Johnson would have been proud of, and another quick change at Baker Street allowed us to make it, but it was tight.

[Brucey]

I had a similar situation last year.  Travelling from Plymouth to Cambridge, with the only connection being the last train of the day from King's Cross to Cambridge.  As you can expect (based on my luck in similar circumstances), my train from Plymouth to Paddington was delayed.

The only way I made the connection was by running.  Literally sprinting between train and tube at both London termini.  Arrived on the platform just as the 'CD^▸ (Capital Delivery)' button (close doors instruction from dispatcher to driver on driver only trains) was being pressed.

Interesting reading what could've happened had the connection been missed.  Had the worst happened, I would've just set up camp in the 24hr McDonald's for the five hours until the first train of the morning.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Way back on the day that the Falkirk Wheel was opened, I went up to report on it for Canal Boat magazine (my employer at the time) and planned to catch the train back to Charlbury that same day. This was in the days that CrossCountry ran loco-hauled trains and 60+ minute delays were not uncommon.

We left Waverley, got to Haymarket... and waited. And waited. There was, apparently, a fault with the train. Eventually we set off again, over an hour late.

Mobile internet wasn't a thing then, but as chance would have it, a bunch of bashers had got onto the train somewhere like Stafford or Crewe and sat down opposite me... and they had a copy of the GBRTT. I looked up the last trains of the night from Birmingham, and found that there was a late Chiltern train which would take me as far as Banbury. But, of course, from Moor Street - not New Street.

I forget how quickly I ran between the stations, but I think it was something like three minutes (I was much younger then!). The Chiltern guard had already closed the doors ready to go... but his back cab door was still open, and he let me on through that. I've rarely been so grateful to a member of rail staff. (I then phoned a friend from Charlbury who agreed to come and pick me up from Banbury!)