Electrification - so Cascade - so congestion easing - delayed.

[whole diary]

[Rhydgaled]

Will we see some Stadler GW2/6, those with the short power car in the middle of the train, probably too inovative for the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) even if they've been running successfully in Europe since 1995?

Otherwise how about Siemans 186s,  Bombardier 173s, or Alstrom 176s?

Personally, I'm not sure I care who builds what, as long as some orders keep the Derby plant running, and they have CrossRail EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) to build at the moment. So, for this off-wire stock order I just hope it is something regional expressy like a 158 or 175 with end doors and seats with plenty of legroom and good window alignment. Possibly one for the rumour mill, but I think I read somewhere that Stadler were one of the firms in the running (presumably with a different design to fit our loading gauge). Also don't forget CAF are going to build the new ScotRail sleeper stock, do they make DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit)?

Thanks Stuving.

Interesting that it says 120 carriages but doesn't specify number of units. Is that 60 2 car, 40 3 car or 30 4 car or a mixture of each. I suppose that's what makes bidding for a rail franchise such fun having to guess what the Dft actually require

Four 2-car units operating every 15 minutes will potentially carry the same number of pax as 2 four-car units running half-hourly. DfT is concerned with capacity before it is concerned with frequency, leaving the latter for NR^» (Network Rail - home page) and the TOC^▸ (Train Operating Company) to decide.

Not sure about that. I think Four 2-car units operating every 15 minutes will carry MORE passengers than 2 four-car units running half-hourly. Same capacity yes, in theroy*, but more passengers attracted because of the higher frequency and thus potentially overcrowding (although it depends how busy the service is to start with).

If you have infrequent almost empty 4-car trains, then running 2-car trains more frequently will help use the available capacity. If you have infrequent long trains which are full, running half-length trains at double the frequency would be a big mistake.

* in practice any of kitchens/buffets/toilets/crumple-zones, will need to be duplicated in which case shorter, more frequent trains would be less capacity

[eightf48544]

Will we see some Stadler GW2/6, those with the short power car in the middle of the train, probably too inovative for the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) even if they've been running successfully in Europe since 1995?

Would the Stadler GTW fit the British loading gauge though?

It comes in Narrow (metre) gauge which might be small enough.

Agree with Rhydgaled. If you have infrequent long trains which are full, running half-length trains at double the frequency would be a big mistake.

 Operation Princess!

[chrisr_75]

Will we see some Stadler GW2/6, those with the short power car in the middle of the train, probably too inovative for the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) even if they've been running successfully in Europe since 1995?

Would the Stadler GTW fit the British loading gauge though?

It comes in Narrow (metre) gauge which might be small enough.

I think the ride might turn out to be a bit bumpy in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)... 

[grahame]

It comes in Narrow (metre) gauge which might be small enough.

I think the ride might turn out to be a bit bumpy in the UK^▸ (United Kingdom)... 

There's more than one way ...

Thus in less than two days 177 route miles of main line were converted from broad to narrow gauge with the minimum of interruption to traffic. A truly magnificent feat of engineering and organisation.

... From The Great Western Railway - a brief history

[paul7575]

Of course there's little or no correlation between track gauge and vehicle or structure gauge.  Bigger vehicles than ours can still run on smaller (eg metre) gauge track, and AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) most Irish stock is interchangeable with ours, their bogies don't make the vehicles any bigger.

Paul

[PhilWakely]

Of course there's little or no correlation between track gauge and vehicle or structure gauge.  Bigger vehicles than ours can still run on smaller (eg metre) gauge track, and AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) most Irish stock is interchangeable with ours, their bogies don't make the vehicles any bigger.

Paul

Trains on the Trans Mongolian route actually switch gauge in transit from Russian 5ft to Chinese standard gauge (and vice versa) by lifting the coach bodies whilst the occupants [try to] sleep

[BBM]

Of course there's little or no correlation between track gauge and vehicle or structure gauge.  Bigger vehicles than ours can still run on smaller (eg metre) gauge track, and AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) most Irish stock is interchangeable with ours, their bogies don't make the vehicles any bigger.

Paul

I was in Japan earlier this year where the 'regular' network is 3ft 6in gauge (high-speed is standard gauge) and the train interiors to me seemed to be very similar to continental European size.

[Oxonhutch]

I was in Japan earlier this year where the 'regular' network is 3ft 6in gauge (high-speed is standard gauge) and the train interiors to me seemed to be very similar to continental European size.

Indeed, having ridden those huge Manchester-built Beyer-Garretts in Southern Africa I can tell you that they would not fit under a British single-track bridge. All on the Cape gauge of 3' 6", same as Japan.  Their 2' cousins - now translated to the Welsh Highland Railway - aren't that small either.

[BBM]

I've just remembered about the Class 158 units exported to Thailand which have standard bodyshells mounted on metre-gauge bogies. I managed to get a photo of one while on a visit to Bangkok in April 2011:

[Bmblbzzz]

Will we see some Stadler GW2/6, those with the short power car in the middle of the train, probably too inovative for the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) even if they've been running successfully in Europe since 1995?

Would the Stadler GTW fit the British loading gauge though?

It comes in Narrow (metre) gauge which might be small enough.

This one should be small enough. 

[Bmblbzzz]

Of course there's little or no correlation between track gauge and vehicle or structure gauge.  Bigger vehicles than ours can still run on smaller (eg metre) gauge track, and AIUI^▸ (as I understand it) most Irish stock is interchangeable with ours, their bogies don't make the vehicles any bigger.

Paul

Trains on the Trans Mongolian route actually switch gauge in transit from Russian 5ft to Chinese standard gauge (and vice versa) by lifting the coach bodies whilst the occupants [try to] sleep

They (used to and probably still) do the same on the Western border too.

[TaplowGreen]

I've just remembered about the Class 158 units exported to Thailand which have standard bodyshells mounted on metre-gauge bogies. I managed to get a photo of one while on a visit to Bangkok in April 2011:

................I hope this wasn't the highlight of your trip to Bangkok? 

[TonyK]

................I hope this wasn't the highlight of your trip to Bangkok? 

What goes in Thailand stays in Thailand.

Suffice to say that if your newly met lady friend manages to reverse-park the car first time, you should consider your next move with extreme caution...

[grahame]

From Rail Magazine - on sale today - see more [here]

Great Western Railway Managing Director Mark Hopwood has explained how Network Rail^s electrification delays will affect his passengers.

The train operator^s plans are in shreds. Its franchise agreement with the Department for Transport will have to be substantially amended. And NR^» (Network Rail - home page)^s revised schedule for wiring the Great Western Main Line means many of GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)^s promises for capacity and performance improvements cannot be met on time. In some cases, they cannot be met for years.

Hopwood must work out how much of his three-year programme is still possible. The first of 58 suburban electric trains arrives early next year, but there is no possibility of the wires being ready for them to run as planned.

Beyond that, a key decision will be to convert the entire order for electric inter-city Hitachi trains into bi-mode variants, fitted with diesel engines

[JayMac]

I maintain that it serves FGW^▸ (First Great Western)/GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) right for riding on the coat tails of Network Rail. The average customer will just see broken promises from FGW/GWR. Deflecting blame onto Network Rail is unlikely to wash with those customers.

Here's a new tag line for GWR: 'The Greatest Balls Up Since Brunel'

Another worry I have is that HMG will give First Group another extension with generous terms beyond 2017, by way of recompense for these delays. So no competition to innovate and GWR can carry on complacent.