Reservations Enquiry

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

FWIW^▸ (for what it's worth), my (entirely personal) opinion is that seat reservations shouldn't be available at all on with-flow peak services, and if they are, they should be reserved for those paying the full Anytime fare - i.e. not season ticket holders, who already enjoy a 30%+ discount on the standard fare. But I realise that might not be popular in this thread.

If seat reservations should only be made available to full Anytime fare passengers on these services, what about people who've planned in advance and purchased Advance tickets and obtained a cheaper fare? Your suggestion rather falls down here, especially as when people complain that they can't get a seat on busy services the default response from GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) is "did you reserve a seat?", or are seats to be the privilege of those few who can afford the often astronomically priced Anytime fares on busy services?

Personally standing from Maidenhead to Paddington on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) wouldn't bother me, it's only 20 minutes or so, but if tickets (of whatever type) are sold on the basis that reservations are available, then this shouldn't be changed in this way in such an apparently disingenuous manner.

[Richard Fairhurst]

Again - my entirely personal opinion is that Advances shouldn't be offered at all on peak-time with-flow services; and that on off-peak or contra-peak services, they should only be offered on other services where there's evidence that it's not possible to fill that service with walk-up tickets, and for some reason lower walk-up prices (a la Super Off Peaks) aren't possible.

But I recognise that may be a minority opinion, and it certainly isn't the way GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have been going with recent pricing changes, sadly.

[NickB]

To be clear, I don't think that reservations on peak services are the best option either and I resisted making such reservations until the alternatives became untenable.

By way of explanation: Fgw/gwr downgraded adjacent services from Maidenhead from HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) to turbos a few years ago. This had the effect of condensing all 1st Class travellers on to a single HST - the 7.08.

In a feat of populist stupidity Fgw then removed a whole 1st class carriage from this service resulting in constant overcrowding.

Fgw's response to constant customer misery was to say 'you need to make a reservation'. They ignored everyone who pointed out that reservations just allocate the seating and don't increase the seat count.

I have not seen a Train Manager on this service for a year. They squirrelled themselves away when the carriage got cut and everyday resulted in a bun fight.

Lastly, I'd love to get a later service but unfortunately Gwr have cut the parking capacity at Maidenhead by 50% in the past year so to park I have to arrive before 7am and I'm not standing on the platform for 25mins waiting for another train.

[TaplowGreen]

Again - my entirely personal opinion is that Advances shouldn't be offered at all on peak-time with-flow services; and that on off-peak or contra-peak services, they should only be offered on other services where there's evidence that it's not possible to fill that service with walk-up tickets, and for some reason lower walk-up prices (a la Super Off Peaks) aren't possible.

But I recognise that may be a minority opinion, and it certainly isn't the way GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) have been going with recent pricing changes, sadly.

That being the case, if you're basing prices solely on demand, pretty much every service from the Westcountry towards London on a Sunday from late morning onwards will be walkup fares only - whilst this would make GWR very happy, you would be severely limiting the number of people who could afford it, and for an industry that receives vast public subsidies would be politically (and arguably morally) unacceptable (it would probably make National Express and other coach operators very happy too when loads of people shift to their much more reasonably priced services!!!) The standard of service and reliability would have to improve considerably to match expectations at these prices and people would not tolerate standing from (for example) Taunton to London as I have witnessed. It is also a non starter if like many on this forum you seriously see rail as a viable alternative to road/coach/air travel.........absolutely respect your opinion though and it is very thought provoking! 

[ChrisB]

The super off-peak fare is quite reasonable compared to driving. Its the limited (time) availability that needs amending

[Richard Fairhurst]

That being the case, if you're basing prices solely on demand, pretty much every service from the Westcountry towards London on a Sunday from late morning onwards will be walkup fares only - whilst this would make GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) very happy, you would be severely limiting the number of people who could afford it

Certainly thought provoking!

Let's say an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) can take 500 passengers. And let's say 500 passengers are prepared to pay a walk-up fare of ^83.30 for that service (Super Off-Peak Return, Exeter-Paddington).

What's the moral justification for selling cheaper Advances on that service? First is subsidised to run GWR (^200m pa in a recentish story) so ultimately those cheap tickets are supported by taxpayers, not by First's shareholders. Many of those taxpayers will be less well off than the time-rich people who can afford to plan their travel in advance: think working taxpayers vs the comfortably retired.

This is why I'm so bamboozled by the recent fare changes on the Cotswold Line. It's now possible to buy a Charlbury-Paddington advance single on the 08.31, the busiest departure of the day, for ^10 (randomly chosen weekday, fare checked just now at gwr.com). Previously the cheapest single was ^30ish. I know plenty of people here who travel several times a week, and were prepared to pay the walk-up fare, but who now jump on the Advances as soon as they're released and snap them up. So the changes seem to have two effects: reducing the amount regular travellers are paying GWR, and (because of the attendant increased fares and tightened restrictions) dissuading unplanned turn-up-and-go travel. Life is going to get interesting once Chiltern start running through to Oxford...

[ellendune]

Let's say an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) can take 500 passengers. And let's say 500 passengers are prepared to pay a walk-up fare of ^83.30 for that service (Super Off-Peak Return, Exeter-Paddington).

I thought that the whole point of advances was to fill empty seat because not enough passengers were prepared to pay that fare. 

Remember its not just about filling a train between Maidenhead and Paddington.  Ideally it would be full for the whole of its journey.  Arguably a Worcester Paddington passenger is of more value to GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) than a Maidenhead to Paddington passenger on the same train.  So still sell Worcester Paddington advances even though the train is full between Maidenhead and Paddington.   

[Richard Fairhurst]

I thought that the whole point of advances was to fill empty seat because not enough passengers were prepared to pay that fare.

Absolutely - so did I. But GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) are selling Advances on the 08.31 from Charlbury, a train which used to fill up of its own accord, and people who previously bought full-price tickets are now buying these instead. And as TaplowGreen posted, Sunday trains from the West Country would still be full if walk-up fares were the only ones available. GWR's logic baffles me.

[grahame]

When services commence from Oxford (Central) to Marylebone, much of the potential traffic will be abstraction from the London journeys of people from Oxford and to the north and west thereof; it's likely that (for a while, anyway) overall capacity on Oxford - London may exceed demand.   So it makes logical sense for the incumbent that will be facing competition (GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)) to take steps to reduce the number of people transferring to the new service.   Lower price ticketing (through the advance mechanism, where people cannot switch route and get the lowest cost deal available) seems like a commercially sensible route to go in the short term.

Of course, the coming of additional trains from Oxford to London that take some of the all-the-way traffic off those trains may be good news for people at places like Reading, Twyford and Maidenhead as overcrowded services there become a little less overcrowded, and indeed the potential of more comfortable journeys into London from the Thames Valley may help in turn to grow traffic there.

[Oxonhutch]

When services commence from Oxford (Central) to Marylebone, much of the potential traffic will be abstraction from the London journeys of people from Oxford and to the north and west thereof; it's likely that (for a while, anyway) overall capacity on Oxford - London may exceed demand.   So it makes logical sense for the incumbent that will be facing competition (GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway)) to take steps to reduce the number of people transferring to the new service.   Lower price ticketing (through the advance mechanism, where people cannot switch route and get the lowest cost deal available) seems like a commercially sensible route to go in the short term.

Also when CH services start from Oxford ('Central'), GWR will have to share their walk-up/season  OXF^» (Oxford - next trains)-LON revenue with the new operator.  Already some of it goes to XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) and SWT^▸ (South West Trains).  With advance tickets 100% of the fare goes to GWR.

[ChrisB]

I would guess that Chiltern will launch their own OXF^» (Oxford - next trains)-MYB^▸ (London (Marylebone)) fares too - and they'll keep 100% of that

[John R]

Could GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) offer a Paddington only ticket at a very slight discount and thus keep all their revenue? Or is that not allowed?

[ChrisB]

Not allowed, as they're the fare setter on the Any Permitted routing

[TaplowGreen]

A bit of competition, even if indirect, can only be a good thing and should make GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) raise their game.

[IndustryInsider]

A bit of competition, even if indirect, can only be a good thing and should make GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) raise their game.

They're raising it for the May timetable change by utilising more HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s on some of the off-peak services that are currently Turbo operated.