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Red Squirrel
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Posts: 5219
There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2015, 18:49:48 » |
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Environment Secretary Elizabeth Truss said...
^We want to ensure people can continue to drive into city centres and by targeting action at the most polluting coaches, taxis, buses and lorries we will encourage the use of cleaner vehicles.^
More evidence of the war on public transport? |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2015, 19:02:32 » |
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Indeed. Up go fares & costs pf consumables in the city centres, while out of town shops get another boost
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2015, 19:45:39 » |
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Not totally wrongheaded, but mostly so.
The Birmingham Mail's poll too, with its options of "They need to be got off the roads" and "It's unfair on drivers who can't afford a new vehicle".
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Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
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stuving
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« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2015, 20:22:48 » |
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There's a surreal quantity of stuff from the DEFRA - which doesn't help to find something specific. I've looked for a justification for charging buses, but not cars (outside London) but not found it. Here's something a bit relevant, though. In the West Midlands document Figure B2 (p 22), plots "Annual mean roadside NOX source apportionment plots for all roads exceeding the annual mean NO2 limit value in 2013". For the trunk roads, which are the worst, heavy vehicles collectively emit a lot more than cars, but buses alone emit only half as much. So a justification is called for. In among the welter of economic theory about how owners will react, I think the idea is that buses will be redeployed (by big national companies) or traded (between smaller local ones) so the naughty buses end up where the charges don't apply. This has cost implications, but not perhaps as bad as the zone charge being added to fares. Something similar can be done with HGVs. One other point visible in the predicted roadside NOX levels is that the reductions in most places (where zones are not seen as necessary) are from just over 40 to just under, mainly due to tighter standards. For those places to get zones, it goes from a bit higher but still to just under - not a huge effect. For West Midlands, the figures are 47 without and 39 with the zone in 2020. London has to be different, as the levels now are far higher. (Details in the Technical Report, p 46.) |
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« Last Edit: December 18, 2015, 10:24:05 by stuving »
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Rhydgaled
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« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2015, 20:31:33 » |
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The charges will apply to taxis, buses, coaches, lorries and light goods vehicles such as commercial vans, but not private cars. Why not private cars? They may emit less individually, but there are alot more of them, it all adds up. Not a good policiy for encouraging modal shift to public transport. |
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Don't DOO▸ it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
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JayMac
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« Reply #6 on: December 17, 2015, 22:01:35 » |
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Bring back the trolleybuses.  |
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"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."
- Sir Terry Pratchett.
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grahame
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« Reply #7 on: December 17, 2015, 23:03:27 » |
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We should probably be thankful that there is no proposal (that I can see) to introduce charging for diesel trains entering these city centres.
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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grahame
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« Reply #8 on: December 18, 2015, 09:23:46 » |
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Full list of cities involved in this initiative, according to The MirrorBirmingham, Leeds, Southampton, Nottingham and Derby. |
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Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
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Tim
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« Reply #9 on: December 18, 2015, 09:30:58 » |
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is this not just a cack-handed way of targeting diesels over petrol engines to meet some short term target at the expense of long term modal shift?
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #10 on: December 18, 2015, 09:39:33 » |
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...while not being seen as "prosecuting the war on the motorist". But so far, it's just an announcement; quite likely, the legislation might not even be passed.
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Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #11 on: December 18, 2015, 09:47:47 » |
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Hasn't it already been passed?
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Red Squirrel
Administrator
Hero Member
Posts: 5219
There are some who call me... Tim
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« Reply #12 on: December 18, 2015, 10:11:54 » |
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...while not being seen as "prosecuting the war on the motorist". But so far, it's just an announcement; quite likely, the legislation might not even be passed.
Ah, the War on the Motorist - I remember it well; it started in 1997 and ended in ignominious defeat in 2000... |
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Things take longer to happen than you think they will, and then they happen faster than you thought they could.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #13 on: December 18, 2015, 10:52:01 » |
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Hasn't it already been passed?
Don't know actually. The Birm Mail starts with "The Government will pass laws requiring Birmingham to introduce road charging for taxis, coaches and commercial vehicles in an attempt to cut pollution" and then says "Birmingham City Council will have to introduce the charges under laws introduced by the Government - but the authority said it welcomed the announcement." So not yet, but yes already. |
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Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #14 on: December 18, 2015, 10:52:31 » |
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...while not being seen as "prosecuting the war on the motorist". But so far, it's just an announcement; quite likely, the legislation might not even be passed.
Ah, the War on the Motorist - I remember it well; it started in 1997 and ended in ignominious defeat in 2000... So long? |
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Waiting at Pilning for the midnight sleeper to Prague.
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