Season Ticket calculations

[whole diary]

[Oxonhutch]

With an annual season ticket, I am trying to find the definitive answer to how many days travel are presumed to included.

For instance, on what basis are void days calculated for an annual?

I though I had the answer but then looked things up on GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) website and got a different result.

[grahame]

According to National Rail - 240 days (480 single journeys)

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/58058.aspx

But it does seem to vary ...

For many train operating companies, the Delay Repay compensation offered to annual season ticket holders depends on the company^s assumption about the number of journeys made each year. The more journeys, the less the compensation.

A Sevenoaks Rail Travellers Association investigation has shown that different companies^ assumptions range from 278 to 546 single journeys. Southeastern are the most miserly.

from the Sevenoaks Rail Traveller's Association site - https://srta.org.uk/wp/posts/1323

[grahame]

Further reply - see image attachment - if a weekly ticket is 10 single journeys at 3.92, then an annual ticket starts saving money on the 201st day of travel (example is for a season ticket starting next week - 2016 prices)

[Oxonhutch]

Thanks Grahame,

I came across the 240 days from the National Rail/GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) site but had in my mind it was 220 days.  Possibly just a Senior Moment but the difference is significant. I was really wanting to see if GWR had quietly changed the numbers over what I understood to be the case for the past five years.

Some companies talk about charging for 40 weeks. So 280 days (worst case) or 200 days (best case).

[grahame]

I came across the 240 days from the National Rail/GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) site but had in my mind it was 220 days.

As minimum legal holiday is now 20 days plus 8 bank holidays (isn't it?), it seems naughty (or outdated) for the calculation to be based on more than 232 days.

[LiskeardRich]

I came across the 240 days from the National Rail/GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) site but had in my mind it was 220 days.

As minimum legal holiday is now 20 days plus 8 bank holidays (isn't it?), it seems naughty (or outdated) for the calculation to be based on more than 232 days.

Indeed Graham. My contract I've been reading recently due to another matter (imminent redundancy) states entitlement to 26 days annual leave plus bank holidays. In 2015 our CEO^▸ (Chief Executive Officer) granted us a bonus day, resulting in 27 days plus 8 bank holidays. The company give us time back in lieu of working Christmas eve and New Years eve also. I've also been on paternity leave for 2 weeks since 18/12, so an annual season may not have been the most economic for me this year had I chose that option. However poor main line rail service means the train doesn't work for most of my shifts in the winter time table- summer time table due to the 1721 running 15 or so minutes later means I use a lot of train in the summer, as my office is 25-30 mins walk from the station.

[ChrisB]

Different figures for both, I think.

Pricing of an annual is based on 40xweekly, whereas a void day is calculated at 48 weeks usage (assumes 4 weeks leave, which majority get) - so you effectively get 8 weeks 'free' travel when buying an annual.

[Tim]

I came across the 240 days from the National Rail/GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) site but had in my mind it was 220 days.

As minimum legal holiday is now 20 days plus 8 bank holidays (isn't it?), it seems naughty (or outdated) for the calculation to be based on more than 232 days.

Not sure I necessarily agree. Someone who travels to the Big City every (working) day for work is also likely to travel to the Big City on his/her days off for shopping, leisure, education etc.

And remember that because the season ticket is based on 240 off-peak journeys, the season ticket is hugely discounted anyway for a passenger who travels at peak times.

Season ticket holders often pay the least and yet often impose the highest cost on the railway (because they travel at peak times when capacity is expensive to provide)

Having said all that, a more flexible approach to season ticketing has the potential to help part time workers and those who travel to different places each day

[LiskeardRich]

Not sure I necessarily agree. Someone who travels to the Big City every (working) day for work is also likely to travel to the Big City on his/her days off for shopping, leisure, education etc.

This is something I hadn't thought of on my previous reply, but whenever I have had a 7 day or longer season, I've taken my children (both under 5) on the train using my season, because
a) they love trains
b) I've paid for it - so effectively a free outing on a day off.

[TaplowGreen]

I came across the 240 days from the National Rail/GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) site but had in my mind it was 220 days.

As minimum legal holiday is now 20 days plus 8 bank holidays (isn't it?), it seems naughty (or outdated) for the calculation to be based on more than 232 days.

Not sure I necessarily agree. Someone who travels to the Big City every (working) day for work is also likely to travel to the Big City on his/her days off for shopping, leisure, education etc.

I think that's a very interesting point but a bit of a sweeping statement/generalisation Tim - those who live very close to where they work may well travel in to do their shopping etc but for those who live further out and endure a longer journey purely for work it's probably quite unlikely - for example in the last 3 months I have used my season ticket 3 times at the weekends, then again my train (from Taplow) takes 45 mins to get anywhere near "The Big City" (Paddington) and there are much more practical places nearby for me to go for shopping/leisure etc............... if I lived in Ealing however it might be a different story.

As for the cost of season ticket being based on off peak journeys, it would certainly appear to represent a big discount, but it may also be legitimate to consider whether peak/anytime fares are far too expensive generally?

[ChrisB]

Obviously not, looking at usage!

If people were being priced off their job, they would move location/job, or drive in. Just because pax think they should pay less, doesn't mean it's overpriced. When people do decide to change mode of transport, that may be an indicator. But they aren't

Oh, and seasobs are based on a multiple of peak fares, not off-peak

[TaplowGreen]

Obviously not, looking at usage!

If people were being priced off their job, they would move location/job, or drive in. Just because pax think they should pay less, doesn't mean it's overpriced. When people do decide to change mode of transport, that may be an indicator. But they aren't

Oh, and seasobs are based on a multiple of peak fares, not off-peak

I think that's oversimplifying the situation somewhat, especially in London/the Southeast with the price of housing/parking, paying high rail fares is simply the lesser of several evils.

Demand for transport in the Southeast is relatively inelastic hence operators can to an extent charge what they want irrespective of the cost of providing the service (....regulation notwithstanding), it doesn't mean that it's right - time and time again it's been demonstrated that British rail commuters pay far more than those in Europe which speaks for itself.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2015/jan/02/british-commuters-rail-travel-europeans

(Is a seasob a particularly melancholy sea shanty?) 

[ChrisB]

But a proper comparison (which is still yet to be done) needs to compare trsins per hour/quality of services (some stock is oldr than ours!) etc etc...just comparing prices (per mile?) really cuts no mustard

[grahame]

But a proper comparison (which is still yet to be done) needs to compare trsins per hour/quality of services (some stock is oldr than ours!) etc etc...just comparing prices (per mile?) really cuts no mustard

Do you feel like adding quantity and quality of services to this table  ... 7 day season, anytime day and off-peak day returns - from brfares, so these are before the January rises to come next week.

Tweedbank - Edinburgh 64.00 / 16.00 / 11.20  .. 38 miles
Stranraer - Ayr 82.00 / 20.50 / 17.40 .. 50 miles
Swindon - Reading 130.30 / 69.60 / 24.30 .. 40 miles
Glasgow - Edinburgh 92.80 / 23.10 / 12.60 .. 47 miles
Manchester - Blackpool 80.10 / 21.80 / 18.10 .. 53 miles
Cardiff - Swansea 41.00 / 15.10 / 8.90 .. 41 miles
Exeter - Plymouth 79.20 / 22.00 / 18.00 .. 45 miles
Reading - London 105.10 / 44.30 / 18.10 .. 36 miles
Bristol - Cheltenham Spa 68.80 / 16.50 / 9.00 .. 43 miles
Peterborough - London 181.90 / 100.00 / 33.00 .. 74 miles
Swindon - London 233.30 / 124.00 / 45.10 .. 71 miles
Chippenham - Oxford 101.90 / 47.60 / 14.90 .. 54 miles
Truro - Plymouth 51.30 / 16.60 / 10.00 .. 55 miles
Westbury - Bristol 54.80 / 12.30 / 11.10 .. 30 miles
Westbury - Weymouth 89.70 / 21.50 / 17.40 .. 56 miles
Whitby - Darlington 54.00 / 13.50 / 13.50 .. 50 miles

[ChrisB]

Not particularly! :-)

Something for those researchers who have nothing better to do with their time. But I was referring to European fares mainly....many of which aren't providing commuter services (and therefore a lot higher costs) to the extent that the UKs^▸ (United Kingdom) Southeast gets, for example