Bicycles on trains - new policy from May?

[whole diary]

[PhilWakely]

Apparently it is not possible, but I would like to see cycle reservations on ALL GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services.

Have you experienced the last couple of Sunday services back from Barnstaple in the Summer or when the weather has been good? One one occasion I recall as many as thirty on a two coach Pacer!

[Richard Fairhurst]

So when the time comes to send the Pacers to Booths, just rip the seats out instead and use them as bike vans.

[ChrisB]

Southern BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) used to have a few of those in slam-door days....used to return London-Brighton bikes back to the smoke.

[TaplowGreen]

Apparently it is not possible, but I would like to see cycle reservations on ALL GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) services.

Have you experienced the last couple of Sunday services back from Barnstaple in the Summer or when the weather has been good? One one occasion I recall as many as thirty on a two coach Pacer!

Then they should be stopped from boarding, as that is clearly a safety issue.

[grahame]

Southern BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) used to have a few of those in slam-door days....used to return London-Brighton bikes back to the smoke.

East Kent Railway has more of these in preservation than they probably know what to do with ...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_419
... perhaps they could spare one or two?

Early biomodes 

And more here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_489
but electric only

[Red Squirrel]

Without wishing to rejoin this debate, couple of points:

1. Every time I read the subject of this topic I find myself wondering why on Earth the Home Secretary is bothering herself with this - surely this kind of thing is McLoughlin's brief?
2. I like the idea of biomodes - if we had compostible trains, perhaps we'd feel better about turfing out some of the old stock and replacing it with something fit for purpose.

[Bmblbzzz]

At the moment it is not possible to make bicycle reservations on all trains. On the smaller trains (sorry, I'm not sure of the class names and numbers, but eg the Cardiff to Southampton and Bristol to Malvern trains) there is no provision for booking ^ it's simply first come, first served and use the tippy seats. Which sometimes are also used for wheelchairs. There really needs to be better provision IMO^▸ (in my opinion) for both bikes and (especially) disabled passengers, but there isn't.

But even where reservations can be made they're rarely compulsory. You can put a bike on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) without a booking, for instance. Theoretically, people who've booked have priority for the spaces (6 on an HST) but in practice that's completely unenforceable; once bikes are on, they're on. I don't know if train staff would have the right to remove an unbooked bike to make way for a booked one without informing its owner, but I'd like to think they wouldn't do that anyway.   If there is to be enforcement, it has to be at point of boarding. (A couple of weeks ago I was stopped from boarding with a bike at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) because the train was already full of bikes. I caught the next one, which probably had an equal number, but we managed to jenga our machines in a surprisingly cooperative way in that space in the corridor so that people could still get by.)

The point about commuting, a few posts above, is probably valid, but all my bikes on trains experience is at non-commuting times (the incident above was about 7 pm on a Tuesday) so it really is a larger issue than that. I do think luggage is relevant too: it's all allocated the same space on most trains. The basic problem is we need more spacious trains with better facilities for luggage of all types.

[TRAINMAN57]

At the moment it is not possible to make bicycle reservations on all trains. On the smaller trains (sorry, I'm not sure of the class names and numbers, but eg the Cardiff to Southampton and Bristol to Malvern trains) there is no provision for booking ^ it's simply first come, first served and use the tippy seats. Which sometimes are also used for wheelchairs. There really needs to be better provision IMO^▸ (in my opinion) for both bikes and (especially) disabled passengers, but there isn't.

But even where reservations can be made they're rarely compulsory. You can put a bike on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) without a booking, for instance. Theoretically, people who've booked have priority for the spaces (6 on an HST) but in practice that's completely unenforceable; once bikes are on, they're on. I don't know if train staff would have the right to remove an unbooked bike to make way for a booked one without informing its owner, but I'd like to think they wouldn't do that anyway.   If there is to be enforcement, it has to be at point of boarding. (A couple of weeks ago I was stopped from boarding with a bike at BRI^» (Bristol Temple Meads - next trains) because the train was already full of bikes. I caught the next one, which probably had an equal number, but we managed to jenga our machines in a surprisingly cooperative way in that space in the corridor so that people could still get by.)

The point about commuting, a few posts above, is probably valid, but all my bikes on trains experience is at non-commuting times (the incident above was about 7 pm on a Tuesday) so it really is a larger issue than that. I do think luggage is relevant too: it's all allocated the same space on most trains. The basic problem is we need more spacious trains with better facilities for luggage of all types.

 I have it good authority that from may 16th 2016 bike reservations will be compulsory on all hst and 180 stock, no reservation no travel.!!!!!!

[ChrisB]

Not sure I agree with luggage space comments above - have you seen the ridiculous amounts of luggage some people think a train is meant to carry with them? They move house.....

But yes, it all needs staff to enforce limits/bans...and there's the rub

[JayMac]

The basic problem is we need more spacious trains with better facilities for luggage of all types.

Neither luggage nor bicycles pay to occupy the space though.

[rogerw]

I can remember the days when you had to pay half fare for a bicycle, and trains had large guards vans in those days

[John R]

I'd be in favour of that. Or even a third fare. It doesn't seem unreasonable to me to have to pay to take a bulky item that takes up more space than an adult.

[Billhere]

Many years ago a cycle ride that annually went from London to Brighton was rerouted to Oxford. The problem was that the organisers failed to tell anybody including Oxford Council or the railway, so from about two in the afternoon hordes of cyclists wishing to return to London started descending on Oxford Station expecting to just get on a train and go home with their bikes.

A Turbo a probable maximum of four per coach, to avoid blocking gangways, and of course six on an HST^▸ (High Speed Train) (pre booking required). The Police were called twice because of public order issues where cyclists were not getting their own way and just expecting to be being allowed to pile on to the detriment of everybody else.

I seem to remember going home that night from the Control at Reading at eight in the evening and watching hordes of cyclists standing on Reading Station platform trying to get back to London.

I understand the ride went back to Brighton the next year!

I did consider trying to run two specials with some spare Turbos, one for bikes and a following one for passengers but if I remember correctly platform space was not available at Padd to cater for anything extra because of engineering.

You cannot cater for the unexpected of which this was an extreme example

[Bmblbzzz]

I think most people would not object to a small fare to take a bike on a train and would even welcome it if it meant they were assured of a space for their bike (or big luggage!)*. The problem is how to enforce it. You'd have to have a member of staff checking all bikes for reservations as they got put on the train, which is going to be difficult to do and cause delays at busy stations.

And paying for a space but then not getting one would cause ructions. Yes, you can buy a ticket and it doesn't guarantee you a seat, but it does let you on the train even if you have to stand in the corridor (on trains without compulsory seat reservations). That doesn't normally prevent other passengers getting on or staff getting up and down the gangway, whereas bikes in corridors are harder to get past. If, as often happens at the moment, you've reserved a space but it's already taken by an unreserved bike, what next?

*The luggage problem is hardly restricted to trains: see any plane.

[grahame]

I think most people would not object to a small fare to take a bike on a train and would even welcome it if ....

Indeed.   But when something ceases to be free of charge, you get a step-change increase in the expectation of the service, extra costs in collecting those small fares which may be out of proportion to the fare collected, and you've probably got to have a monitoring / survey / refund / compensation setup too.