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Author Topic: Train Operating Companies v Trade Unions dispute - ongoing discussion  (Read 81535 times)
ellendune
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« Reply #195 on: January 10, 2017, 20:09:37 »

Its when they (Unions) believe, rightly or wrongly, they are not being listened to it ends in the current situation.

Its when ordinary working people believe, rightly or wrongly, they are not being listened to.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #196 on: January 10, 2017, 20:37:57 »

Southern do publish (or did) timerables for these days
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John R
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« Reply #197 on: January 10, 2017, 20:46:47 »

Given that Southern are now recruiting drivers, might one consequence of the dispute be that Southern drivers in particular, but maybe those of other TOC (Train Operating Company)'s too will find that in a year or two time their overall earnings are reduced by a lack of overtime?  And what about those TOC's that rely on rest day working for Sunday?  That has to be even more of an anachronism in this day and age.
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trainbuff
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« Reply #198 on: January 11, 2017, 14:08:37 »

Just thought I had better add this link about a passenger being dragged with their hand caught in DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) train.

http://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/driver-accused-of-dragging-train-passenger-along-platform-with-hand-stuck-in-door/ar-BBy6lTk?li=BBoPOOl&ocid=mailsignout

No second person on platform either guard or platform staff
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Invest in Railways in Devon and Cornwall!
ChrisB
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« Reply #199 on: January 11, 2017, 14:12:23 »

I assume prosecutors believe there was intent on the driver's part here, or at least ignoring the rule book. Not much either could do if this is proven.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #200 on: January 16, 2017, 23:43:35 »

http://trib.al/a9V5zb4

.......could prove costly.....
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Fourbee
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« Reply #201 on: January 17, 2017, 10:06:33 »

http://trib.al/a9V5zb4

.......could prove costly.....

I can fully understand why someone would want to do this, but would Southern be able to refuse travel/decline this gents card in future (for any reason)?

My line of thought are customers who have reclaimed PPI/packaged bank account fees find their accounts can get closed with 30 days' notice. The bank cites a breakdown in their relationship.

Edit: the link describes a Southern commuter "Sean" who reclaimed 50% off his annual season ticket from American Express under a section 75 claim due to the bad service provided by Southern.
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Tim
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« Reply #202 on: January 17, 2017, 10:53:19 »

http://trib.al/a9V5zb4

.......could prove costly.....

I wonder if that fact the Amex UK (United Kingdom) is based in Brighton (and therefore staffed by people likely to be victims of Southern) is of any relevance.

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broadgage
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« Reply #203 on: January 17, 2017, 13:43:57 »

This could be huge, I foresee many more claims of a similar nature.
I suspect that TOCs (Train Operating Company) may stop taking credit cards to avoid such refunds in future. Meanwhile if anyone is about to buy a season ticket it would seem sensible to use a credit card.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU (Diesel Multiple Unit) is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Tim
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« Reply #204 on: January 17, 2017, 14:14:19 »

I can fully understand why someone would want to do this, but would Southern be able to refuse travel/decline this gents card in future (for any reason)?

My line of thought are customers who have reclaimed PPI/packaged bank account fees find their accounts can get closed with 30 days' notice. The bank cites a breakdown in their relationship.

More broadly, does a ToC have to sell a ticket or carry a passenger?  I would have thought that so long as they were not discriminating on the basis of a protected characteristic (ie refusing to provide the service because customer is female, gay, black, muslim etc) they can refuse.  Or does the franchise agreement require them to take all comers? 
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #205 on: January 17, 2017, 16:33:03 »

This could be huge, I foresee many more claims of a similar nature.
I suspect that TOCs (Train Operating Company) may stop taking credit cards to avoid such refunds in future. Meanwhile if anyone is about to buy a season ticket it would seem sensible to use a credit card.

That would be a typical response from a TOC - play the man, not the ball.

They may be better off challenging the legality of the strike, and if successful hit the Union with a bill for every penny incurred.
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Tim
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« Reply #206 on: January 17, 2017, 17:29:18 »

This could be huge, I foresee many more claims of a similar nature.
I suspect that TOCs (Train Operating Company) may stop taking credit cards to avoid such refunds in future. Meanwhile if anyone is about to buy a season ticket it would seem sensible to use a credit card.

That would be a typical response from a TOC - play the man, not the ball.

They may be better off challenging the legality of the strike, and if successful hit the Union with a bill for every penny incurred.

But the strike doesn't appear to be illegal.  I expect Southern has looked very hard at the process of the ballot etc and concluded that too.  If the strike is legal the Union isn't liable for any losses.

The only solution is a negotiated settlement (which would require compromise which Southern might be willing to make but which the neither the Government nor the unions seem able to do at the moment) or an imposed settlement (with new staff if required).

Part of me thinks they (or rather the Government who are pulling the strings) need to make up their mind and either back down on DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) in the interests of getting the trains running again, or else decide that they are going to take the pain and force through a PATCO/Reagan-style resolution.  Problem is the first option whilst probably acceptable to Southern is not to the Government who clearly want DOO on Southern not for its own sake but so that they can impose it elsewhere.  The second option would probably bankrupt Southern.  But the current strikes are not achieving anything except misery.

I am uncomfortable with the Government's role in this.  Southern is a private company.   
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4064ReadingAbbey
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« Reply #207 on: January 17, 2017, 20:41:59 »

I assume prosecutors believe there was intent on the driver's part here, or at least ignoring the rule book. Not much either could do if this is proven.

There is an RAIB (Rail Accident Investigation Branch) report on this incident. https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/passenger-accident-at-hayes-harlington-station One of the learning points is
 
Quote
The second concerns the potential for drivers to be distracted by the use of mobile communication devices while driving.

This might well be the reason for the prosecution
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ChrisB
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« Reply #208 on: January 17, 2017, 21:21:17 »

As I stated upthread.

ASLEF» (Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers and Firemen - about) has suspended their strikes with ACAS-hosted talks tomorrow with a senior HR (Human Resources) outsider along with an Abellio(?) Director involved
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bobm
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« Reply #209 on: January 17, 2017, 21:40:25 »

Are the new talks at ACAS?  All the reports I have seen suggest they are being staged by the TUC.
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