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Author Topic: Speed limits on the Westbury avoider  (Read 30700 times)
grahame
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« Reply #15 on: October 19, 2016, 14:07:41 »

Wow - if you want to know something, ask here  Grin  Grin

My original enquiry was prompted as an offshoot of an issue raised with me after the most recent meeting of the Westbury Area Board of Wiltshire Council, where there was concern that residents living in the Oldfield Road area of the town had found the walking way to the station that's been in use since "time immemorial" obstructed,  with the only alternative being a significantly longer route.

Two stages of enquiry, including various feedbacks from GWR (Great Western Railway) and HoW(resolve) people who know an thing or three, and from here, has lead me to suspect that main intent of the obstruction may not be to specifically stop people using that section of the walking way that's blocked, but rather to discourage use of the walking way as a whole.

Please take a look at these comments - updates and inputs very welcome - see what you think.    I'll then be submitting it back to my original contact and hopefully heads and come together (to work out a solution and not to clash!)

Quote
Dear Xxxx,

I'm answering your feedback from the recent meeting of the Westbury Area Board of Wiltshire Council, and the follow up research I have done.

** Background

The TransWilts CIC (Community Interest Company ) promotes rail and other public transport and sustainable travel to, from and within Wiltshire, and the TransWilts Community Rail Partnership, which is a part of that, concentrated particularly on the rail service from Swindon to Westbury with some onward service and connections to Salisbury. Our service has a significant passenger traffic of commuter traffic joining Swindon-bound trains at Westbury, and returning there in the evening. Commuters who live in Westbury use other commuter lines to - the main flow to and via Bath Spa, but also via Newbury and Reading, and via Warminster.  Those commuters who live with the urban area of Westbury typically walk to the station, which also has a substantial number of car parking places.

Westbury Station is a designated Community Rail Station on the Heart of Wessex line, and the West Wilts Rail User Group also has some 'adoptive rights'. Both organisation have a long standing and continuing positive active involvement, with TransWilts available to support them as appropriate as well as looking at interests and matters specifically raised by Swindon service passengers, as initially in the current case.

*** Walking routes to Dilton Marsh and Oldfield Road - Geography

Last Friday, I took a look around at Westbury station with reference to the walkway which leads from the station entrance past the car park and railyard where it forks, one leg leading to Dilton Marsh and the other leg to Oldfield Road.

To Oldfield road, the route is in a number of sections:
a) Station entrance / box junction with parking opposite
b) Public Road from front of the station to the right, leading to Westbury Station car park
c) A continuation of the public road as a road to the railyards
d) A stretch of about 50 yards of footpath to the fork, between hedges
e) A footpath across a field
f) A pedestrian level crossing over the railway line



This route from Westbury Station to residences on and near to that section of Oldfield Road is significantly shorter than the alternative route via the Station Approach Road and B3097. It appears to be well worn / significantly used throughout.

The look around was prompted by a request from Westbury community members and people who work in Westbury, concerned that section (d) has been obstructed even though (I believe) it had been in use without incumberance for many, many years.

Correspondence indicates that sections (c) and (d) are not considered to be public rights of way, and that the through route has been blocked off due to concerns about heavy lorries and pedestrians sharing section (c).

Planning proposals are in the offing for section (e) for a housing development, with the footpath becoming a residential street leading onto the B3097 near the Railway Inn. An extension of this street is proposed to rise and cross the railway line to the west.

*** In the short term

I have been informed that the blocking of walkway (d) is allowed and legal as it is not a public right of way, but also that this legallity has not been tested. There is some doubt due to the very long time this path has been used.  Whichever way it is, it would be a long and difficult thing to sort out at expense to various sides if they remain in active dispute.

I have also been informed that the closure of walkway (d) is because of the danger of lorries and pedestrians mixing on road section (c). "Heavy lorries on a narrow road mixing with pedestrians".  However, pedestrians and lorries routinely mix on quite narrow roads throughout the UK (United Kingdom), and I do find it difficult to believe that if the lorry drivers take care there is any greater danger here - in fact there is a far greater danger from the same heavy lorries directly in front of the station entrance at (a), where pedestrians spill out and short term pickup is directly opposite.

Preventing access from southern end of (c) to the northern end of (e) would also eliminate most pedestrian use of (e) and (f) as they would become just part of a looping path from Oldfield Road to Dilton Marsh, which journey can be made much easier by other routes.  Foot crossing (f) is a particular issue, as it's on a 100 m.p.h. section of express railway line, which has a temporary but long standing speed restriction in the middle due to poor sighting on the crossing, and I'm sure that Network Rail would love it if that crossing could also be closed.  As a heavily used right of way, that would not be easy to justify, but as a lightly used right of way for which a shorter alternative was available, the case may be easier to make and less public concern would be raised.

*** In the longer term

Access from the station approach through the car park / area around road (c) and walkway (d) to what becomes a residential street at (e) would be a significant benefit to new residents living on the street at (e) in the new development.  The develops should be encouraged to provide such access, which will be a significant value to their customers and have a positive effect on the house prices. Such a move would (in the long term) eliminate the need for access through (c) and (d).

The foot crossing at (f) potentially remains or becomes even more of a problem if it still exists, being a right of way between two areas of housing. The next (road and walk) bridges to the east and west may not be close enough to be realistic replacements, the cost or providing a disable bridge may be rather high, and the idea of having Plymouth to London trains reduce to half speed on a fast section of track will not be attractive, let alone the increased traffic (road and pedenstian) that would be expected.

*** Suggestion

1. That there's engagement on the issue of both station access and access to Oldfield Road with the developers, with a view to providing a safe, accessible, long term public walkway from Oldfield Road to the station through their development.  Easy foot access from the development to the station will enhance the value of housing there due to excellent public transport proximity.

2. That as an interim measure and gesture of goodwill / demonstration of positive intent, Network Rail re-open the connections (c) and (d) as a permissive path to be closed for 1 day a year, or provide the Area Board of Wiltshire Council with documentary evidence that the road (c) offers a greater risk than the junction (a) if they have such evidence that we have missed.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #16 on: October 19, 2016, 14:51:41 »

Is there reasonable proof that NR» (Network Rail - home page) is the culprit here? (signs etc with their name on?)

Once sure who the culprit is, the local town/parish council can explore with trhe culprit the legality of closure & progress the reopening if not legal. If legal, they can also work with said culprit in order to try & find a path etc that could be used.

It is my understanding - but you would need to check this with the County Council's footpath officer, that use through "custom & practice" of at least 7 years can lead to the way being declared public as it hasn't been blocked etc for that time.

But what's this got to do with Avoiding line speed limits? :-)
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grahame
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« Reply #17 on: October 19, 2016, 15:08:03 »

Is there reasonable proof that NR» (Network Rail - home page) is the culprit here? (signs etc with their name on?)

A reliable rail source has provide data as to who has done what, with regards both signage and obstruction.

Quote
Once sure who the culprit is, the local town/parish council can explore with trhe culprit the legality of closure & progress the reopening if not legal. If legal, they can also work with said culprit in order to try & find a path etc that could be used.

It is my understanding - but you would need to check this with the County Council's footpath officer, that use through "custom & practice" of at least 7 years can lead to the way being declared public as it hasn't been blocked etc for that time.

That's very much what my conclusions (at the end of a long post!) though I have suggested a two phase approach, bearing in mind proposed development on the land and the pointlessness of wasting lots of money on a short term solution

Quote
But what's this got to do with Avoiding line speed limits? :-)

The footpath level crossing with the speed limit is "F" on my diagram, and the effect of preventing people walking from under "F" to above "A" is reducing the traffic across the footpath.  By asking about the speed limit over that crossing, I was looking to learn about the potential dangers it offers, and also the potential for future acceleration of train services were the crossing to be eliminated.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #18 on: October 19, 2016, 15:46:44 »

I thought we discussed this footpath in another thread: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17515.msg202221#msg202221

If I recall correctly the footpath crossing was fitted with one of the new Miniature Red/Green Stop Light (MSL (Miniature Stop Lights (foot crossing))) systems which later had its 'Product Approval' withdrawn and all like installations were subsequently de-commissioned.  Also, I think the 50mph PSR (Permanent Speed Restriction) was withdrawn but then obviously had to be re-instated.  If you look at Real Time Trains most trains that use the Up Avoiding line loose 1 or 2 minutes running time so over a period of a year a substantial level of train delay is accumulated by NR» (Network Rail - home page) for which it has to pay out.

My personal feeling is that the footpath closure has something to do with the output of the footpath crossing risk assessment and possibly seen as a way of eliminating the risk (with the added bonus of reducing train delay and associated costs) Tongue
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ChrisB
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« Reply #19 on: October 19, 2016, 15:51:46 »

How long is the walk from the station to that junction on Oldfield Road?
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Tim
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« Reply #20 on: October 19, 2016, 15:56:54 »

How is the footpath obstructed?

It was always my understanding that if a public footpath has been illegally obstructed, then a walker is entitled to either force the highway authority to remove the obstruction or get out the wire cutters and remove the obstruction himself/herself.

presumably the path in question is not recorded as a public footpath. although perhaps it ought to be.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #21 on: October 19, 2016, 16:04:14 »

I suspect it's not a right of way at the point(s) between where it's been blocked as NR» (Network Rail - home page) know full well what the law says - it's not marked on google maps for example.

BUT I think they have (deliberately) overlooked this "custom & practice" to force the local authority to spend money proving it.
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chrisr_75
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« Reply #22 on: October 19, 2016, 16:44:12 »

Am I the only one who noticed the rather unfortunately named lane close to the top edge of the above map?!  Grin
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grahame
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« Reply #23 on: October 19, 2016, 16:45:58 »

My personal feeling is that the footpath closure has something to do with the output of the footpath crossing risk assessment and possibly seen as a way of eliminating the risk (with the added bonus of reducing train delay and associated costs) Tongue

I would have guess that too ... except I'm assured by an industry professional in his official capacity ...

"This is the road that is used by DB» (Deutsche Bahn - German State Railway - about) then it is not a thoroughfare it is a road to a sidings operated by network rail it is not safe to walk down the road as it has 6-8 lorries every hour travelling down this small single track road. I was asked to look at this recently and it has signage put up by Network rail as it is not safe to walk down this road this is the reason behind it."

Had the case been "look - there's a safety issue with the crossing", I'm sure that the members of the local communities - town / parish / county would have appreciated the problem.   I've had a look and think there's a significant risk, frankly, which has grown with the extra crossing use due to housing development just south of the avoiding line.

I don't understand the "6-8 lorries every hour".   I've spent a couple of hours on section (b) and not seen any of them.  As I commented earlier, I don't understand why they're more of a danger on (c) than on what is effectively the station entrance Plaza at (a). And I note it says "the reason" not "a reason", so we're not being told that it's a combination of risks.

If the problem's the crossing ...
The solution that looks obvious to me is to for a TSR (Temporary Speed Restriction) to remain in place until a new access is provided as a part of the development

If the problem's the lorries ...
The lane is plenty wide enough to paint a whiteline as a path along (c). I can find you a precendent where a similar painted path is used by around 200 passing pedestrians a day, which should be enough until the new housing comes in.
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grahame
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« Reply #24 on: October 19, 2016, 16:47:13 »

Am I the only one who noticed the rather unfortunately named lane close to the top edge of the above map?!  Grin

No, but those of us who know the town well are aware of it already  Grin Grin
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ChrisB
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« Reply #25 on: October 19, 2016, 17:12:40 »

Coal I suspect, rather than ladies of the night.
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Louis94
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« Reply #26 on: October 19, 2016, 22:30:47 »

One of the sites like Realtraintimes or Opentraintimes did used to show a list of TSRs (Temporary Speed Restriction) - it is one of the Network Rail datafeeds - but I cannot find one showing it now.
They are posted on the Railway Performance Society's forum.  This weeks list is at http://www.railperformancedata.org.uk/index/siteforum-list-action/post.3398/title.tsrs-15th-21st-october-

From that it seems that there are two separate 50 mph TSRs on the Up Westbury Avoiding Line.  One as stated above due to crossing safety an the other due to track condition.  Considering there is only 1 mile and 24 chains between the end of one and the start of the other, I wonder how much the driver s able to accelerate before they have to start braking again.  It can't be that far between the T board for the first and the warning board for the second.
Looks like the second one is between Clink Road Junction (Frome) and Fairwood Junction (Westbury) as its a 4 mile stretch.  The track on that part has been getting worse for the past few years (all those heavy stone trains) and it looks as though its got to the point of 'no return' Tongue  Going that way on Sunday so will find out.

The second one (track condition) seems to cover the Fairwood Junction itself and slightly after - 97 miles to 97 miles 2 chains (which is where the mileage changes to 111 miles 18 chains at Fairwood Junction.) Only half the line speed you would otherwise be going (without the other TSR of course)  Grin
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eightf48544
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« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2016, 23:05:00 »

Coal I suspect, rather than ladies of the night.

Weren't there #Iron works at Westbury rather than coal?
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JayMac
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« Reply #28 on: October 20, 2016, 00:07:39 »

Yes. The name Slag Lane derives from Westbury Iron Works which were situated nearby.

I've never known 'slag' to be linked to coal. It's the waste material from the separation or smetling of metal from ore.
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ChrisB
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« Reply #29 on: October 20, 2016, 08:42:26 »

good point, thanks
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