Punctuality....why does it suffer and how can it be improved??

[whole diary]

[devon_metro]

The A38 may be brilliantly fast, but what happens when there is a crash, and it is nowhere near the centre of Plymouth/Exeter.

Train on the other hand...

Train is also much quicker on average than the A380, which past Newton Abbot is a nose-tail crawl upto Torbay.

Exeter - Paignton (peak) 1hr
Exeter - Paignton (peak) (slow train) 50mins.

[woody]

The A38 may be brilliantly fast, but what happens when there is a crash, and it is nowhere near the centre of Plymouth/Exeter.

Train on the other hand...

Train is also much quicker on average than the A380, which past Newton Abbot is a nose-tail crawl upto Torbay.

Exeter - Paignton (peak) 1hr
Exeter - Paignton (peak) (slow train) 50mins.

As you say the single carraigeway A380 through Kingsteignton into Torquay is a nightmare and desperately needs dualling.According to the Mayor of Torbay on local tv recently,subject to the funding package being accepted by the government work on the long awaited Kingsteignton by-pass will begin in 2010 transforming road access to Torbay.
  This will further erode rails competitiveness into Torbay if the effects of the dualling of the A30 and A38 roads in the rest of Devon and Cornwall are anything to go by.
  If rail is to prosper in this part of the world in the longer term as we all want, pressure needs to be applied to get real improvements to rail infrastructure here.Interestingly even the great man himself Isambard Kingdom Brunel chief engineer of the South Devon Railway between Exeter and Plymouth waived his fee because the "Atmospheric" fiasco ended up leaving us today with a poorly laid out,speed restricted rail route west of Newton Abbot which has haunted generations of train operators.

[Lee]

As you say the single carraigeway A380 through Kingsteignton into Torquay is a nightmare and desperately needs dualling.According to the Mayor of Torbay on local tv recently,subject to the funding package being accepted by the government work on the long awaited Kingsteignton by-pass will begin in 2010 transforming road access to Torbay.

More on related issues in the link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1310.msg7190#msg7190

[devon_metro]

The A38 may be brilliantly fast, but what happens when there is a crash, and it is nowhere near the centre of Plymouth/Exeter.

Train on the other hand...

Train is also much quicker on average than the A380, which past Newton Abbot is a nose-tail crawl upto Torbay.

Exeter - Paignton (peak) 1hr
Exeter - Paignton (peak) (slow train) 50mins.

As you say the single carraigeway A380 through Kingsteignton into Torquay is a nightmare and desperately needs dualling.According to the Mayor of Torbay on local tv recently,subject to the funding package being accepted by the government work on the long awaited Kingsteignton by-pass will begin in 2010 transforming road access to Torbay.
  This will further erode rails competitiveness into Torbay if the effects of the dualling of the A30 and A38 roads in the rest of Devon and Cornwall are anything to go by.
  If rail is to prosper in this part of the world in the longer term as we all want, pressure needs to be applied to get real improvements to rail infrastructure here.Interestingly even the great man himself Isambard Kingdom Brunel chief engineer of the South Devon Railway between Exeter and Plymouth waived his fee because the "Atmospheric" fiasco ended up leaving us today with a poorly laid out,speed restricted rail route west of Newton Abbot which has haunted generations of train operators.

I'm sure we will still be drawing up plans for the Kingskerswell bypass, like we have been for 30/40 years 

[Btline]

Hmmmm.

I'm sort of half and half here!

I think it would be mad to stop HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) at Exeter! All should continue to Plymouth calling at Newton and Totnes. Infrasture should be improved to make sure all services take less than 3 hours. Some Plymouth terminators should call at Ivybridge to fill any gaps in local services.

There should be more trains from London/midlands to Torbay, after Exeter calling Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton, Torquay and Paington.

Therefore, local services should fill in any gaps, and call at the rest of the stops to Torbay: St Thomas, Dawlish Warren, Torre etc.

HOWEVER, HSTs should be fast after Plymouth, of which there should be half frequency (i.e. every 2 hours from London) with trains calling everywhere except: Hayle, Loiswithleel and stops between Liskard and Plymouth.

Local services should fill the gaps where XC^▸ (Cross Country Trains (franchise)) services lack, and should call everywhere. Their should be an enhanced "Metro" style service for the stops near Plymouth, facilitated by the Guinislake, Looe (?), and Newquay branches. This should run from Liskard (and Devonport on the Guinislake branch) to Newton Abbot.

There should also perhaps be a localish service between Exeter and Plymouth (maybe originating from BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) or C Central) to ensure through journey opportunities..

See- every bit of line has fast and stopping trains! All bits of line need them!

PS- to be honest. For people coming from further afield, it should not matter if the A38 is faster for a stretch. The service should be as fast as possible before the slow bit!

[vacman]

Not possible to run through trains to Looe as passenger trains are not allowed through the yard from the main line to the branch. 2 hourly Newquay-Plymouth would work though!

[Btline]

Not possible to run through trains to Looe as passenger trains are not allowed through the yard from the main line to the branch. 2 hourly Newquay-Plymouth would work though!

That's a shame. It would boost usage of the Branch.

Yep- Plymouth to Newquay 2 hourly. Then all HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) can axe Loisweith, Saltash etc. as stops!

[Btline]

And while your at it, send it through to Newton.

Then you can axe HST^▸ (High Speed Train) calls from Ivybridge (no more SDO^▸ (Selective Door Opening)).

[Conner]

Like your ideas, but sending local (or HST^▸ (High Speed Train) for that matter) services from Cardiff Central-Penzance at sensible times would be a nice addition.

[devon_metro]

Problem with high speed extensions is the generally awful timekeeping of some services, most notably the 1005, 1205 and 1505 from Paddington. Local services are rarely late although countless times have I waited for a delayed HST^▸ (High Speed Train) to Paignton and on the odd occasion a late voyager.

I think if the line could be improved from Newton Abbot - Plymouth services in Cornwall could then compliment the local services so that larger station get a more than hourly services.

Local hourly all shacks/2 hourly big shacks

As for Torbay, I don't think it needs a regular service to London out of summer times, perhaps at more suitable times that they are now (0738 via Bristol takes hours and hours)
(1415 faster service)
I'd suggest:

Keep the 0738 as it prvides a useful link to Bristol
1200 fast service to London titled the 'Torbay Express' get some cheap tickets going around, promotions and you may get more pax.
1630 (the down working could pick up the school traffic between Teignmouth/Torre and this would also mean you could arrive in Torbay before Lunch and depart back to London.

[woody]

Hmmmm.

I'm sort of half and half here!

I think it would be mad to stop HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) at Exeter!

Totally agree but the financial realities of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise premium profile do not bode well for the future in these parts.
 The 10 year First Greater Western Franchise started with subsidy from government but quickly reverts to increasingly large premium payments to government.
Here's a breakdown of the payments that First receives (for the first three years) then makes (for the following four years) for the task / honour of running trains Westward from London.
2006/07 First to RECEIVE a SUBSIDY of 97 million pounds
2007/08 First to RECEIVE a SUBSIDY of 46 million pounds
2008/09 First to RECEIVE a SUBSIDY of 14 million pounds
2009/10 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 20 million pounds
2010/11 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 111 million pounds
2011/12 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 168 million pounds
2012/13 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 233 million pounds
First can relinquish the contract at that point without penalty, or they can carry on for a further 3 years:

2013/14 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 302 million pounds
2014/15 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 363 million pounds
2015/16 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 427 million pounds
I would not put money on First making it to year 10 of the current FGW franchise.
  The point is that those rising premium payments have to be paid for by rising passenger numbers/efficiency savings.What happens if this does not happen. According to Network Rails 2007 business  and I quote "Between 2000 and 2006 rail passenger demand has grown by up to 20 percent for journeys from Exeter and Taunton to London, and up to 40 percent to the Midlands. However, this is in contrast to the minimal growth for journeys to similar locations from Plymouth, and west thereof",something will have give.

[vacman]

Yes but passenger numbers are already high from Cornwall to London, and last year saw an increase, a lot to do with the weekday service through to Newquay, First wouldn't gain anything by stopping HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s at Exeter because they would need to magic up some sprinters from somewhere and it actually SAVES them money by running the HST's through even if they do stop everywhere because of having to hire less units, passenger numbers in Cornwall and Devon seem to be on the up again lately now that the new timetable has settled in and (touch wood!!) FGW^▸ (First Great Western) seem to have sorted out their staffing issues and other reliability issues in the far west. It also seems now that nearly all "Devon metro" services are 4 car 142's which has increased capacity.

[Lee]

Hmmmm.

I'm sort of half and half here!

I think it would be mad to stop HSTs^▸ (High Speed Train) at Exeter!

Totally agree but the financial realities of the FGW^▸ (First Great Western) franchise premium profile do not bode well for the future in these parts.
 The 10 year First Greater Western Franchise started with subsidy from government but quickly reverts to increasingly large premium payments to government.
Here's a breakdown of the payments that First receives (for the first three years) then makes (for the following four years) for the task / honour of running trains Westward from London.
2006/07 First to RECEIVE a SUBSIDY of 97 million pounds
2007/08 First to RECEIVE a SUBSIDY of 46 million pounds
2008/09 First to RECEIVE a SUBSIDY of 14 million pounds
2009/10 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 20 million pounds
2010/11 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 111 million pounds
2011/12 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 168 million pounds
2012/13 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 233 million pounds
First can relinquish the contract at that point without penalty, or they can carry on for a further 3 years:

2013/14 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 302 million pounds
2014/15 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 363 million pounds
2015/16 First to make a PREMIUM PAYMENT of 427 million pounds
I would not put money on First making it to year 10 of the current FGW franchise.
  The point is that those rising premium payments have to be paid for by rising passenger numbers/efficiency savings.What happens if this does not happen. According to Network Rails 2007 business  and I quote "Between 2000 and 2006 rail passenger demand has grown by up to 20 percent for journeys from Exeter and Taunton to London, and up to 40 percent to the Midlands. However, this is in contrast to the minimal growth for journeys to similar locations from Plymouth, and west thereof",something will have give.

Here is a relevant DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) link.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/pgr/rail/passenger/franchises/franchisepaymentprofilesa

[woody]

Yes but passenger numbers are already high from Cornwall to London, and last year saw an increase, a lot to do with the weekday service through to Newquay, First wouldn't gain anything by stopping HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s at Exeter because they would need to magic up some sprinters from somewhere and it actually SAVES them money by running the HST's through even if they do stop everywhere because of having to hire less units, passenger numbers in Cornwall and Devon seem to be on the up again lately now that the new timetable has settled in and (touch wood!!) FGW^▸ (First Great Western) seem to have sorted out their staffing issues and other reliability issues in the far west. It also seems now that nearly all "Devon metro" services are 4 car 142's which has increased capacity.

Anyone remember GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways)? Great Service shame about the figures.

[vacman]

Yes but passenger numbers are already high from Cornwall to London, and last year saw an increase, a lot to do with the weekday service through to Newquay, First wouldn't gain anything by stopping HST^▸ (High Speed Train)'s at Exeter because they would need to magic up some sprinters from somewhere and it actually SAVES them money by running the HST's through even if they do stop everywhere because of having to hire less units, passenger numbers in Cornwall and Devon seem to be on the up again lately now that the new timetable has settled in and (touch wood!!) FGW^▸ (First Great Western) seem to have sorted out their staffing issues and other reliability issues in the far west. It also seems now that nearly all "Devon metro" services are 4 car 142's which has increased capacity.

Anyone remember GNER^▸ (Great North Eastern Railways)? Great Service shame about the figures.

GNER only lost their franchise because Sea Containers couldn't underwrite the franchise payments, passenger numbers were slightly lower than expected but it was an internal problem. First are massive in terms of money and can underwrite the premium.