Train GraphicClick on the map to explore geographics
 
I need help
FAQ
Emergency
About .
No recent travel & transport from BBC stories as at 03:15 27 Apr 2024
Read about the forum [here].
Register [here] - it's free.
What do I gain from registering? [here]
 02/06/24 - Summer Timetable starts
17/08/24 - Bus to Imber
27/09/25 - 200 years of passenger trains

No 'On This Day' events reported for 27th Apr

Train RunningCancelled
27/04/24 12:01 Severn Beach to Bristol Temple Meads
27/04/24 13:51 Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads
Short Run
27/04/24 06:34 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Shrub Hill
27/04/24 06:34 Great Malvern to Bristol Temple Meads
27/04/24 06:55 Cheltenham Spa to Weymouth
07:33 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
27/04/24 10:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Severn Beach
27/04/24 11:38 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Foregate Street
12:02 Westbury to Gloucester
27/04/24 12:49 Worcester Foregate Street to Bristol Temple Meads
14:10 Gloucester to Frome
14:30 Cardiff Central to Portsmouth Harbour
27/04/24 14:38 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Foregate Street
27/04/24 15:38 Bristol Temple Meads to Worcester Foregate Street
17:43 Bristol Temple Meads to Salisbury
18:12 Salisbury to Cheltenham Spa
18:23 Portsmouth Harbour to Cardiff Central
19:13 Salisbury to Worcester Shrub Hill
PollsThere are no open or recent polls
Abbreviation pageAcronymns and abbreviations
Stn ComparatorStation Comparator
Rail newsNews Now - live rail news feed
Site Style 1 2 3 4
Next departures • Bristol Temple MeadsBath SpaChippenhamSwindonDidcot ParkwayReadingLondon PaddingtonMelksham
Exeter St DavidsTauntonWestburyTrowbridgeBristol ParkwayCardiff CentralOxfordCheltenham SpaBirmingham New Street
April 27, 2024, 03:29:18 *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most recently liked subjects
[141] Labour to nationalise railways within five years of coming to ...
[73] access for all at Devon stations report
[47] Who we are - the people behind firstgreatwestern.info
[17] Bonaparte's at Bristol Temple Meads
[3] Lack of rolling stock due to attacks on shipping in the Red Se...
[2] Cornish delays
 
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
Author Topic: Invisible from space - what projects would you promote?  (Read 6735 times)
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40834



View Profile WWW Email
« on: December 03, 2016, 09:42:44 »

Stephen Joseph of the Campaign for Better Transport is quoted in the Guardian

Quote
"There is a tendency for governments to only want to fund transport projects you can see from space," says Stephen Joseph, executive director of Campaign for Better Transport. "But we have long argued that it is local infrastructure that actually matters to most people, but gets the least funding."

What more local infrastructure proposals would you ask Santa to fund this Christmas?  Even Santa has a limited budget though, so please let him know how and why they would be useful, and how they would provide a sustainable (financial, environmental, and quality of life) investment.

« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 09:55:47 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40834



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #1 on: December 03, 2016, 12:36:54 »

Let me start ...

Dear Santa,

Please may we have a robustness and capacity package at Chippenham?  I'm sure that Yuri Gagarin and Neil Armstrong wouldn't notice ...

1. An extra track relaid from Brunel's viaduct over the town, through the station and alongside the main line towards London - total length of around 500 metres - with a crossover at the eastern end to allow trains leaving that track towards London to take the northern of the pair of lines towards Swindon

2. An extra track from where the Bradford Junction to Thingley Junction single track line crosses the Holy Well brook from Corsham to Lacock up to Thingley Junction, making use of the trackbed from the second track that was removed from that section in the late 1960s, with that track diverging from the single line just north of the bridge over the book and crossing over at Thingley Junction to allow a parallel movement off the new loop towards Chippenham while a train pulls under caution into the existing line at that point from the down main

3. Additional signals between Bradford Junction and Thingley Junction so that trains can follow each other at a headway not exceeding 10 minutes, and signalling changes in relation to (1) and (2) to allow flexible use to be made of the resultant infrastructure.

Reasoning:

a) At present, a freight train leaving Westbury bound for Swindon cannot be sidetracked all the way along, and with more trains (3 an hour rather that 2) proposed from Bath via Swindon when the new "IEP (Intercity Express Program / Project.) timetable" is introduced, intermediate holding point(s) that does not interefere with time-critical (i.e. passenger) services will give an extra operating flexibility that will offer additonal timetabling paths and increased capacity without the need for a massive intervention.

b) An addiitonal loop platform track at Chippenham will allow trains from London, from Westbury, and from Brisol to be terminated and reversed at Chippenham without blocking the main through lines during the process

c) Passenger services from Swindon to Westbury and beyond are timed to leave Swindon just behind Bristol expresses, from which they connect.  If the Bristol express is delayed by a few minutes, the Westbury train is also delayed.  If the Bristol train is delayed by a few more minutes, the Westbury train runs ahead all the way to Thingley, and London to Melksham and Trowbridge connections are lost. With an extra loop at Chippenham, Westbury services could run ahead of somewhat delayed Bristol trains, but still connect at Chippenham, resulting in maintained connections and an overall total delay lessened. The option of timetabling connections at Chippenham would also be available, reducing London to Trowbridge journey times by 5 minutes. [Also applies in the opposite direction]

d) Trains headed for Westbury could clear the main London to Bristol line while waiting delayed services from Westbury via Melksham

e) Electric only trains could routinely run between London and Chippenham, rather than restricting operation west of Royal Wootton Bassett to Bi-modes, or operations to times at which a blockage of the main line for electric train reversal was acceptable

f) Reduced headway between trains will increase robusteness of services up to at lease six an hour in each direction between Swindon and Chippenham - 3 IEP services to Bristol, 1 turbo service via Westbury, 1 turbo (or, later, 387) service via Corsham, and 1 freight service.

Business case and sustainability issues

The Swindon to Westbury train service has the fastest growing passenger numbers in the country at the moment according to GWR (Great Western Railway) directors, and our business case work and surveys indicate that it will continue to grow for a years, if it's allowed to. And it will grow all the better if linked in to Westbury to Salisbury and Salisbury to Southapton services encouraging new passengers who will travel on through trains but don't like / eon't change along the way.  But it will need that hourly train mentioned above to achieve this growth - it's already showing signs of being capacity limited on current operations, an emotionally limited by the infrequency of the service at present.

Trowbridge is the county town of Wiltshire, and is fast growing; it has an indirect through train service to London via Salisbury 3 or 4 times a day, irregular services with changes at Westbury and with changes at Swindon, and a service every 30 minutes which involves doubling back at Bath Spa.  By increasing the Swindon service to run hourly, Trowbridge will enjoy a fast hourly service to London with the majority of the journey using electric traction.

The extra track at Chippenham will provide options for the proposed extra Bristol Metro service from Bristol temple Meads to Bath Spa (where it cannot robustly be reversed) to be extended to Chippenham (reversing there) or to Swindon (overtaken by an express if necessary at Chippenham) or beyond.  As well as solving Bristol Metro's problem of where to reverse their train, this is an "enabler" for Corsham in that it provides an hourly local / regional train through their town to / from Bath and Bristol, which are their major journey desires.

Many people from the towns of Melksham and Corsham curently drive to Chippenham to catch the train to Swindon, Reading and London. But as the station at Chippenham is only accessible by car through the town, it leads to more congestion there, leadng to motorist frustration, and a decrease in air quality .  It should be noted that air quality on Rowden Hill, Chippenham ( http://www.wiltshireairquality.org.uk/assets/documents/council-reports/Wiltshire%20ASR%20final%20draft%2022nd%20July.pdf page 20 ) and at the Bridge Centre has been reported as being outside required standards, and both of these locations are on the direct car driving route from Chippenham Station to Melksham and Corsham. By providing good hourly connecting trains from Chippenam to both Corsham and Melksham, which would be enabled by our infrastructure request, you'll be helping us cut vehicle traffic through these "dirty" areas, cut frustration in the town centre of Chippenham, and help reduce the need to provide yet more car parking there.

I am posting a copy of this letter to you, Santa, on a forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat where there are a lot of very knowledgable and intelligent people who I know will be able to take a look at what I've written to you, and let us know of any adjustments that would make these "invisible from space" infrastructure works even more effective!

Graham
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 12:56:39 by grahame » Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #2 on: February 13, 2017, 11:36:24 »

Double Junction at Bourne End to allow a through 2 TPS (30 minute) service to Marlow without changing at Bourne  End all day. Possible electrification if suitable reliable short stock can be

Electrification of Windsor Branch with a Dynamic Loop on Eton Arches to allow a 6 TPS (10 minute) service.

Electrification of Henley Branch with possible dynamic loop or loops at Shiplake or Wargrave stations.

See other thread reinstatement of Bourne End Wycombe preferably as heavy rail to connect with Chiltern, Wast West, WCML (West Coast Main Line) and MML» (Midland Main Line. - about) plus alternative route to Oxford and Banbury.

Through lines Gerrards Cross, Tesco tunnel is built for 4 track.


 
Logged
Rhydgaled
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1500


View Profile WWW
« Reply #3 on: February 13, 2017, 12:59:49 »

I suppose my 'pet project' is one I call 'Project 70'. A new hourly fast service, using regional express DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) (ie. class 158, 159 or 175), between Carmarthen and Cardiff in 70 minutes. That being the journey time that seems to be necessary to beat road transport. The current infrustructure theorectically allows a journey time of around 1hr 23min, if the train only calls at Llanelli and Port Talbot Parkway (hence why it is a new service, removing Swansea from existing services is not an option). However, I'm struggling to work out whether the extent of linespeed improvements necessary to save the other 13mins would be a reasonable amount of work or an undertaking requiring a budget large enough to see from orbit. But I know where to start:

The fact the new service needs to avoid Swansea means good connections between services are needed at Carmarthen. Thus, you need headways to be as short as possible, to minimise the wait for the following train. The block sections are all 5-6 minutes between Llanelli and Ferryside, but 10 minutes from Ferryside to Carmarthen. That section therefore needs improvement. At the Carmarthen end the linespeed drops from 75mph to 50 or 55, then to 20mph for a short stretch before going back up to 50/55. Rebuild that embankment (or something) to raise that to 55mph, and maybe try to bring the 75mph closer to Carmarthen.

The other key oppertunity is on the Swansea District Line, that's mostly 50mph (or was it 55?) but with some really slow bits. Getting it all up to 75mph (minimum, it might be possible to go faster still on part of it) for MUs (Multiple Unit) might help quite a bit, but would the bridge that is currently 20mph take it?

Finally, we come to the other part of the project which, depending on whether we are lucky or not, might be either relatively minor or visible from space. That is pathing the service along the south Wales main line, with all the stopping services (particularly between Cardiff and Bridgend) waiting to get in the way. Four-track through one or two of the minor intermediate stations between Cardiff and Bridgend might do it, or it might require 4-tracking. Or, the 70 minute target might require a completely new, shorter, route between Cardiff and Bridgend (for the faster services), effectively creating a 4-track railway between Cardiff and Bridgend (6-track if you count the Vale Of Glamorgan Line too) and speeding up London-Swansea and Manchester-Swansea trains too but at the cost of being visible from the moon.

I found mps/s values for DMUs accelerating/braking online, and fed them into a simulator I built which was supposed to tell me whether bringing the SDL and Carmarthen-Ferryside sections up to speed would buy me the necessary time saving but I'm not sure how acurate they are. When I ran it on the current infrustructure I got 1hr 9mins and 46secs (non-stop), which with the two calls added should be about 1hr 14min end-to-end (suggesting my figures are out, because as I said above the current infrustructure would be timetabled at around 1hr 23min).
Logged

----------------------------
Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40834



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #4 on: February 13, 2017, 13:40:40 »

I suppose my 'pet project' is one I call 'Project 70'. A new hourly fast service, using regional express DMUs (Diesel Multiple Unit) (ie. class 158, 159 or 175), between Carmarthen and Cardiff in 70 minutes.

Do you have through passenger numbers and business case for Llanelli and west thereof to Port Talbot and east thereof?  Would you see the service carrying on beyond Carmathen to Aberystwyth ...
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
eightf48544
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 4574


View Profile Email
« Reply #5 on: February 13, 2017, 13:42:48 »

Rhydgaled

Very interesting way of looking at what a rail service needs to provide if it's to compete with road.

Perhaps it could be added the parameters for reopening lines. I'm sure reopening Bourne End high Wycombe would shorten the journey from Maidenhead to High Wycombe particularly in the rush hour.
Logged
TonyK
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6438


The artist formerly known as Four Track, Now!


View Profile
« Reply #6 on: February 13, 2017, 15:42:53 »

Dear Santa (or Satan, if necessary)

With regard to Temple Meads to Filton (Filton Bank), could you please make it it four track, now?

Peace and love,

Four Track, Now!
Logged

Now, please!
Rhydgaled
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1500


View Profile WWW
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2017, 15:53:29 »

Do you have through passenger numbers and business case for Llanelli and west thereof to Port Talbot and east thereof?
Nope, I wouldn't even know where to begin on how to work out a business case.

That said, the Campaign For Better Transport have an Annual Average Daily Traffic map of the road network. 26,000 leaving Carmarthen on the A48 towards the M4. There's also the North Pembrokeshire Transport Forum's 2009 Fishguard rail survey, where Cardiff was one of the most-requested destinations (unfortunately the link won't work, you'll need to select the URL in the address bar and hit enter to reload the page) and the North Pembrokeshire MP (Member of Parliament)'s comments that Port Talbot Parkway was an important gateway station for the area, which suggests to me that the rail service west thereof isn't sufficiently attractive to get passengers to use their local station.

Would you see the service carrying on beyond Carmathen to Aberystwyth ...
That would be visible from space, so no. Well, not initially. The way I see it the service would extend to Milford Haven every two hours (as the current Manchester services do), with the others terminating at Carmarthen (ready to be extended to Aberystwyth if the line is ever built). You would probably be looking at two new long tunnels (one nearly two miles, the other about 0.9), possibly several smaller ones, 90mph running over Tregaron bog and at least one level crossing to do the job properly. Probably in the too difficult pile I think.

Very interesting way of looking at what a rail service needs to provide if it's to compete with road.

Perhaps it could be added the parameters for reopening lines.
I certainly think it needs to be considered when pepole talk about bringing routes like Carmarthen-Aberystwyth back from the dead (see also my comments on Bangor - Afon Wen in another topic; it has to be Porthmadog not Afon Wen). If the train is too slow it won't take enough pepole out of their cars to justify it; existing lines should be kept open regardless, but if you are talking about reopenings you might as well provide more frequent bus services instead unless the train is faster than driving.
Logged

----------------------------
Don't DOO (Driver-Only Operation (that is, trains which operate without carrying a guard)) it, keep the guard (but it probably wouldn't be a bad idea if the driver unlocked the doors on arrival at calling points).
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40834



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #8 on: February 14, 2017, 08:48:07 »

That being the journey time that seems to be necessary to beat road transport.

Are you sure that the time is the key factor - what about other issues when driving ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d8EKe08BP0E
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
JayMac
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 18923



View Profile
« Reply #9 on: February 14, 2017, 09:02:26 »

A station to serve Langport and Somerton please!
Logged

"Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for the rest of the day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life."

- Sir Terry Pratchett.
CyclingSid
Data Manager
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1938


Hockley viaduct


View Profile
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2017, 09:54:19 »

I notice that Andy Street, former MD of John Lewis and candidate for W Midlands mayor is hoping to reopen the Stourbridge to Walsall line and the Walsall to Wolverhampton line.
Logged
grahame
Administrator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 40834



View Profile WWW Email
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2017, 11:57:32 »

I notice that Andy Street, former MD of John Lewis and candidate for W Midlands mayor is hoping to reopen the Stourbridge to Walsall line and the Walsall to Wolverhampton line.

I think there's already a service (at 06:38 on Saturday mornings ;-) ) from Wolverhampton to Walsall - 13 minute journey time, fare £2.70 anytime day single, "Not via Birmingham".   I guess a service back from Walsall to Wolverhampton would be useful ...
Logged

Coffee Shop Admin, Acting Chair of Melksham Rail User Group, Option 24/7 Melksham Rep
chopper1944
Full Member
***
Posts: 49


View Profile
« Reply #12 on: February 14, 2017, 13:09:45 »

Doubling the line from Castle Cary to Exeter via Yeovil Pen Mill, Exeter to Plymouth via Okehampton or Exeter to Newton Abbot (New Line avoiding Dawlish and Teignmouth), St. Austell to Newquay via Burngullow and St. Dennis Junction.
Logged
Henry
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 369


View Profile
« Reply #13 on: February 14, 2017, 17:57:32 »

 Re-introduce the Waterloo-Plymouth direct.
 Competition for GWR (Great Western Railway) was never a bad thing, I'm sure their would be a business case for it.
Logged
John R
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4416


View Profile
« Reply #14 on: February 14, 2017, 18:00:11 »

Re-introduce the Waterloo-Plymouth direct.
 Competition for GWR (Great Western Railway) was never a bad thing, I'm sure their would be a business case for it.
I don't see GWR being particularly phased by the SWT (South West Trains) competition into Bristol Temple Meads, so I'm less convinced that it would be beneficial.
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1] 2
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by customers of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link to report). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants

Jump to top of pageJump to Forum Home Page