The Annual Fare rise

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jan/02/rail-fares-train-operators-accused-of-milking-the-system-as-rises-kick-in

Quite heavily covered on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) and elsewhere this morning...........is it the usual "why oh why" or are the year on year increases "truly staggering" as the Labour bod says?

[grahame]

Quite heavily covered on the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page) and elsewhere this morning...........is it the usual "why oh why" or are the year on year increases "truly staggering" as the Labour bod says?

Our country chooses the mid-summer lull of August to announce the overall rate rise on regulated fares as a percentage, and it chooses the dead period for real news over the new year for the new fares to sink in. I don't suppose you would see the same level of coverage if fare rises were based on the inflation figure announced in March, and implemented on the second Monday of September.

Whether such increases are "staggering" depends on your point of view. The 5% rise in real terms in the last 20 years which I quoted the other day at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17809.0 doesn't seem "staggering" to me and the implication (if the increase was indeed eye-watering in some years) is that there have been some / many years where rises have just matched inflation.   But we do need to be careful in accepting that view.

a) What does "in real terms" mean - is it against the retail price index, against average wages, against general travel costs, or what?

b) Were we starting from a really low point for the railways where extra income was desperately needed to ensure that lines could remain open and services running frequently enough for people to stay with rail?

c) Does the 5% apply only to regulated fares / what has happened in the meantime to unregulated fares and to terms and conditions that have changed the fare system map? Members with a long memory may recall a Westbury to London travel card product that was withdrawn a few years back and lead to a steep increase, to restrictions added to all line rovers that mean they're no longer suitable for some uses, to changes to Groupsave that put some group fares up by 75%, and indeed fare banding at weekends being introduced by one operator tomorrow which - if I have read it right - mean that a weekend day trip to London goes up by around 25% for a lot of people to the South West of London.   Against these rises, thought, you also need to consider (whether it's in the 5% or not) some fare reductions / system changes that now offer lower cost options.  And I would like to highlight
* Swindon to Salisbury on the 06:12 - DOWN by 50%
* Severn Beach line fares - my understanding is that they have become much more affordable
* New routing fares from Swindon and Chippenham to West Wiltshire, slashing fares on direct trains
* Advance purchase tickets which at time offer far lower fares than alternatives
And I'm sure there are more examples - they just don't make the news like the rises do

d) With passenger journeys having doubled in the past 20 years, but with only 15% more rolling stock on the lines, isn't there a huge efficiency saving?   Has that really all been re-invested in rail, or does it go to various other places like franchise payments (which some consider a tax on travel) and to the wicked companies who run the trains and their shareholders?

e) Should we be reducing rail fares in real terms due to efficiencies made, or have we inflated the cost of provision so much over the years by insisting on better and better trains with extreme safety, access-for-all, comfort and a desire to keep fleet age down adding hugely to the costs? 

Conclusion?   "Staggering" isn't an absolute measure - it's the view in each case of the person using the word.  And it's a very useful word to use with emotion to help persuade people of your view if you think the system under which are railways operate needs major revision.

While we're "at it", mid December is a staggeringly awkward time to change the timetables at least as far as marketing and promotion of new opportunities offered is concerned ...

[ChrisB]

Our country chooses the mid-summer lull of August to announce the overall rate rise on regulated fares as a percentage, and it chooses the dead period for real news over the new year for the new fares to sink in.

If these fell closer together, the press wouldn't feature them quite so heavily each time. Nearly 6 months apart, the press goes to town both times for the same rise - I'm sure some infrequent travellers think that there are two rises each year of this %.

The 5% rise in real terms in the last 20 years which I quoted the other day at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17809.0 doesn't seem "staggering" to me

Or me....but there are those that think rail travel should be free at point of use. Or at least subsidised stupidly heavily

a) What does "in real terms" mean - is it against the retail price index, against average wages, against general travel costs, or what?

The former.

b) Were we starting from a really low point for the railways where extra income was desperately needed to ensure that lines could remain open and services running frequently enough for people to stay with rail?

No - the Government of the day - Labour - wanted the taxpayer subsidy to get smaller & the users to pay more fairly for their use of it...didn't it start off at RPI^▸ (Revenue Protection Inspector (or Retail Price Index, depending on the context))+2% generally? Before the invention of CPI% too?

c) Does the 5% apply only to regulated fares / what has happened in the meantime to unregulated fares

Larger increases in general terms - eg Virgin EC this year have put some walk-up fares up by 7%...befause they can.

and indeed fare banding at weekends being introduced by one operator tomorrow which - if I have read it right - mean that a weekend day trip to London goes up by around 25% for a lot of people to the South West of London. 

That would be a *long* way to the SW of London - only affects those SW of Salisbury.

While we're "at it", mid December is a staggeringly awkward time to change the timetables at least as far as marketing and promotion of new opportunities offered is concerned ...[/quote]

That'll be something that can be changed once/when/if Brexit takes place - it's an EU^» (European Union - about) habit!

[JayMac]

5% in real terms?

Yet elsewhere I have read of 'twice the rate of inflation and wages in the last decade', '25% more than inflation since privatisation'.

January regulated price rises only cover around 40% of fares. All others are at the whim of operators.

The cheapest tier Advance Purchase from Bristol TM^‡(resolve) to London Paddington in 2007 was £10.00. Today it is £15.00. A 50% increase over a period where inflation increased by only 31%.

I'm of the belief that railways are socially necessary so they should be more heavily subsidised by the state, not progressively less.

[simonw]

Paying more for an improved and better service is a a reasonable approach.

However, these increases have been ongoing for 12+ years as the cost has moved from government to passenger, and very few improvements have actually bee made.

Fantastically high costs of rebuilding stations do not seem to justify benefits seen, with the possible exception of Reading and Glasgow Queens.

The high costs of upgrading track and signals as yet do not seem to add significant capacity.

At the moment, it always tomorrow (6 months, or few years) that things will get better, but this never appears to materialise.

Surely, in the light of the Southern Scandal, the botched implementation of GW^▸ (Great Western) Electrification, this years increases should have been cancelled.

[grahame]

and indeed fare banding at weekends being introduced by one operator tomorrow which - if I have read it right - mean that a weekend day trip to London goes up by around 25% for a lot of people to the South West of London. 

That would be a *long* way to the SW of London - only affects those SW of Salisbury.

I thought it was the other way ... fares from Salisbury and east thereof into London, with exceptions being made for those service further west.   See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17782

From the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) web site / information, remembering that super off peak tickets were valid on all trains on Saturdays and Sundays until the end of last year.

When can I travel?
Want complete flexibility with your travel times? You’ll need to buy an Off Peak Day Single, Day Return or Day Travelcard for your journey. If you already have a new Super Off Peak ticket and need to travel at a time it’s not valid, we’ll just charge you the difference between fares. (You’ll need to do this before you board the train.)

Here is a summary of when you can use your Super Off Peak ticket at weekends and public holidays. You may be able to travel earlier than shown below, so please check when you can travel with a journey planner.
Travel towards London Waterloo:

Not valid on trains arriving into London Waterloo and any station in London Zones 1-6 between 09:31 and 11:59.
Travel from London Waterloo:

Not valid if you board a train departing London Waterloo between 04:30 and 10:59 or 16:00 and 18:30; Vauxhall between 04:30 and 11:05 or 16:03 and 18:35; Clapham Junction between 04:30 and 11:05 or 16:09 and 18:40.
If you have Super Off Peak Day Travelcard, the restrictions above do not apply if you are travelling wholly within the London Zones 1-6 area.
Non-London journeys:

Not valid on trains departing between 04:30 and 10:59.
Are you travelling from or to a station along one of the following lines of route?

West of England: Tisbury – Exeter St Davids; Warminster – Bristol Temple Meads; Westbury – Yeovil.
South Western Mainline: Brockenhurst – Weymouth/Lymington.
If so, your Super Off Peak ticket is valid for travel at any time and the time restrictions above won’t apply to your journey! (Please note that you cannot break your journey if you travel to, from, or via a station outside of the lines or route above, for example Bournemouth – London Waterloo.)

[grahame]

At the moment, it always tomorrow (6 months, or few years) that things will get better, but this never appears to materialise.

Forgive me having an insular view.   On 14th December last, I picked my wife up (metaphorically, not physically) from an overseas trip, and we took a train from a station that was newly opened in 1999. Several changes along the way, one at a station that was completely redeveloped in very recent years, and the final change onto a train that had ceased running at the time convenient for us (I understand) in 1966, and resumed in 2013.  It seems at times that we so quickly discount improvements whereas we remember the delays and heartache, and find it highly frustrating awaiting developments - especially when someone or other has lead us to believe one set of dates / improvements just to have hopes and promises dashed or delayed.

[froome]

Many of the above posts show that people have very different experiences of the rail system, dependent on how they use it and what their journey is.

For those who have put up with, and continue to do so, a norm of traveling on dangerously overcrowded trains and waiting on cold platforms open to the elements while they wait for delayed or cancelled services, with unreliable or non-existent information systems, the idea of any fare increase on fares which are already the highest per mile in Europe is not going to be popular. So it is perhaps not surprising that they don't appreciate being told they are benefiting from expenditure on the infrastructure elsewhere, which may one day in the distant future bring benefits to them, when they have heard the same said for the last 20 years.

[ChrisB]

and indeed fare banding at weekends being introduced by one operator tomorrow which - if I have read it right - mean that a weekend day trip to London goes up by around 25% for a lot of people to the South West of London. 

That would be a *long* way to the SW of London - only affects those SW of Salisbury.

I thought it was the other way ...

Yup - you're right - thanks - I misread it. Quite clear on SWT^▸ (South West Trains) website too.

[TaplowGreen]

Many of the above posts show that people have very different experiences of the rail system, dependent on how they use it and what their journey is.

For those who have put up with, and continue to do so, a norm of traveling on dangerously overcrowded trains and waiting on cold platforms open to the elements while they wait for delayed or cancelled services, with unreliable or non-existent information systems, the idea of any fare increase on fares which are already the highest per mile in Europe is not going to be popular. So it is perhaps not surprising that they don't appreciate being told they are benefiting from expenditure on the infrastructure elsewhere, which may one day in the distant future bring benefits to them, when they have heard the same said for the last 20 years.

I think that sums it up quite well............if only the fare rises were as "Manana Manana" as the long promised improvements!!!

[broadgage]

I would not mind if increased fares resulted in actual improvements, but most of the changes that I have seen have been backwards !

When I lived in London, fares rose substantially to pay for improvements that in south east London consisted of replacing 8 car slam door EMUs^▸ (Electric Multiple Unit) with a mixture of 4 car and 6 car networkers. I got a seat on the old 8 car trains, but had to stand on the new shorter ones.

At the time I was travelling regularly to visit my parents in Gillingham Dorset. A total route modernisation took place, resulting in full length loco hauled trains being replaced by 3 car DMUs^▸ (Diesel Multiple Unit). Again I got a seat on the old trains but had to stand on the new ones, some improvement !

I never used cross country that much, but recall standing on new shorter trains replacing sitting on old full length trains, progress I suppose.

At present we have an enormous programme of investment in the southwest. We already have the new and less reliable signalling, and delays due to electrification works. Soon to come are the overhead wires coming down, and the new shorter trains.
Of course lessons might have been learnt. It must be said that the electrification structures now being erected look more substantial than those used on the failed east coast scheme.
And the numbers of new shorter trains ordered SHOULD permit of two coupled together being used on many rush hour services.

[IndustryInsider]

Lots of other services and routes will be longer and/or have more seats due to increased frequencies within the next few years.  For example, all of the suburban services on the GWML^▸ (Great Western Main Line) at the Paddington end are changing from 2-6 car trains to 8 or 9 car trains within the next few years. 

[TonyK]

While we're "at it", mid December is a staggeringly awkward time to change the timetables at least as far as marketing and promotion of new opportunities offered is concerned ...[/i]

That'll be something that can be changed once/when/if Brexit takes place - it's an EU^» (European Union - about) habit!

Surely it predates our accession to the EEC, let alone the creation of the EU?

[ellendune]

While we're "at it", mid December is a staggeringly awkward time to change the timetables at least as far as marketing and promotion of new opportunities offered is concerned ...[/i]

That'll be something that can be changed once/when/if Brexit takes place - it's an EU^» (European Union - about) habit!

Surely it predates our accession to the EEC, let alone the creation of the EU?

I thought it was relatively recent.

[rogerw]

Timetable changes always used to be May & September. The EU^» (European Union - about) imposed the December change to bring us in line with the rest of Europe