High-speed 'hover train' plans submitted for North

[whole diary]

[Chris from Nailsea]

From the BBC^» (British Broadcasting Corporation - home page):

High-speed 'hover train' plans submitted for North


A Maglev train in Japan

Plans for a futuristic "hover train" that could get passengers from Liverpool to Manchester in just seven minutes have been submitted to transport bosses.

Direct City Networks (DCN) is developing a plan for "the world's fastest underground system".

But the plans have been discounted as "laughable" by a leading industry expert.

Transport for the North (TfN) said the plans needed more "development".

The Liverpool Echo reported how the DCN300+ would be a Maglev - magnetic levitation - system in which vehicles hover above tracks and are propelled by electrically-charged magnets. That reduces friction to a minimum and means vehicles might go at up to 350mph - faster than any conventional train in Europe.

But Tony Miles, who writes for Modern Railways, said the plans were not based in real science. He told the BBC: "I have seen similar things being discussed over the last year from what I would call the mad scientists. What they don't work out is the fact that accelerating to that speed and then braking again would probably vaporise the people inside the train. I think serious scientists would fall about laughing at it."

The DCN plan would see Maglev trains put into a tunnel stretching across the north of England. Its initial plans suggest the journey from Liverpool to Hull could take just 29 minutes. A line between Manchester and Leeds is said to have a journey time of nine minutes.

Rather than using long "trains", the system would instead use passenger pods, or capsules. The plans could cost over £3bn. If approved the Maglev could work alongside Northern Powerhouse Rail, the proposed high-speed rail link from Liverpool to Manchester and Leeds that could connect to HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)).

A TfN spokesperson said: "TfN have been provided with information by Direct City Networks (DCN) PLC regarding a proposal to initially link Manchester and Leeds with a high speed 'MagLev' connection, with the possibility of this being extended to Liverpool and Hull. We have responded to DCN highlighting several areas where we think substantive additional development work would be needed before any proposal could be given more detailed consideration."

In 2015, a Maglev train in Japan set a world speed record of 373mph on a test track.

DCN could not be contacted for comment.

[JayMac]

Was that a comment from Tony Miles, or Dr Dionysius Lardner? Surely he's been misquoted. People in vehicles can accelerate to 350mph and brake from that speed without vapourising.

It would be perfectly possible to reach cruising speed in 60 seconds with no greater acceleration than that of a commercial airliner. You could do it in a quarter of the time (15 seconds) and only experience 1g. Mildly thrilling, best strapped in, but certainly not injurious. Tony Miles is talking poppycock.

DCN are apparently working with Elon Musk. He is as far removed from a mad scientist as it is possible to be.

[Chris from Nailsea]

People in vehicles can accelerate to 350mph and brake from that speed without vapourising.

Not in a Mercedes Sprinter. 

[broadgage]

I suspect that this will be far too costly and far too novel to be seriously considered in the foreseeable future.
Look at the trouble we are having building a conventional high speed line, or indeed electrifying an existing route.

It is however nonsense to suggest that accelerating to such speeds and then slowing would vapourise passengers !
 Has not a TGV^▸ (Train a Grande Vitesse) reached broadly similar speeds without accident ? And aircraft do it all the time, generally without anyone being vapourised ! What nonsense.

[Western Pathfinder]

People in vehicles can accelerate to 350mph and brake from that speed without vapourising.

Not in a Mercedes Sprinter. 

However a Mercedes Sprinter with a blown Turbo EG one that passes engine oil could quite well keep up  .

[TonyK]

Was that a comment from Tony Miles, or Dr Dionysius Lardner? Surely he's been misquoted. People in vehicles can accelerate to 350mph and brake from that speed without vapourising.

It would be perfectly possible to reach cruising speed in 60 seconds with no greater acceleration than that of a commercial airliner. You could do it in a quarter of the time (15 seconds) and only experience 1g. Mildly thrilling, best strapped in, but certainly not injurious. Tony Miles is talking poppycock.

DCN are apparently working with Elon Musk. He is as far removed from a mad scientist as it is possible to be.

v=u+at, IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly). Rather proves your point. 350 mph is about 156 metres per second. To get to that from rest at an acceleration of 1g (9.81 msˉ²) would take under 16 seconds.

Of course, serious scientists told Brunel that passengers would suffocate in Box Tunnel at 40 mph.

Elon Musk is far from mad, just something of a non-conformist. When asked about his concurrent projects of space travel and electric vehicles, he said space was the easier as it presented fewer unknown problems. Maglev travel should be a doddle to someone with that attitude. It is, in any case, proven technology.

I shan't hold my breath, though.

[SandTEngineer]

If its impossible and such a silly idea, why then are the Japanese building one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chūō_Shinkansen

[TonyK]

If its impossible and such a silly idea, why then are the Japanese building one: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chūō_Shinkansen

Quite obviously they haven't realised that it's impossible. Just like bumble bees don't realise that they can't fly.

It's a long term job though - 13 years from shovel to first train and 31 years for the lot - although HS2^▸ (The next High Speed line(s)) won't be much different. One wonders what the risks are of digging very long tunnels in earthquake-prone countries.

[Oxonhutch]

One wonders what the risks are of digging very long tunnels in earthquake-prone countries.

Over time, they develop a kink!

[TonyK]

An optimist would soon have a twin-bore tunnel out of that.