Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here]. Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
Random Image
Current Train Running @GWR Twitter Feed Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail News GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4
June 26, 2017, 01:02:52 AM *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Login Register  
Pages: [1]
  Print  
Author Topic: Cost of new trains compared to older ones.  (Read 471 times)
broadgage
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 1399



View Profile
« on: March 20, 2017, 09:30:53 PM »

I refer here to the cost of purchase or manufacture, and NOT to the fares payable for use of the train.

Elsewhere on these forums I have speculated that trains seem to be getting more expensive. Mass production and improved technology have allowed cars and aircraft to get better and cheaper whilst trains seem to getting more expensive and arguably worse.
Rather than relying on my subjective impression that "trains have got more expensive" does anyone have any hard figures ?

For example after correcting for inflation, how does the cost per seat of an HST compare to an IET ?

Or what about the cost per seat, after allowing for inflation, of an EPB compared to a networker ? or a more modern EMU ?

Or any other comparisons between older and newer trains that serve at least somewhat similar markets. I refer to the capital cost, not the fares payable for travel.
Logged

"When customers say that they want a seat, they dont mean they want to sit with their knees behind their ears so that 4 more can sit down. They mean that they want an extra coach so that 74 more can sit down"
"Capacity on intercity routes should be about number of vehicles, not compressing people"
ChrisB
TransWilts Member
Hero Member
******
Posts: 8225


View Profile Email
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2017, 09:36:46 PM »

Technology costs.

I think you'll find that top of the range cars (avec new technology) are not cheaper than the same top of the range say, 10 years ago
Logged
Tim
TransWilts Member
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2530


View Profile
« Reply #2 on: March 21, 2017, 12:29:00 PM »

Technology costs.

I think you'll find that top of the range cars (avec new technology) are not cheaper than the same top of the range say, 10 years ago

I think a mid-price mass market car would be a better comparison.  Say a Ford Anglia vs a Ford Escort verus a current Ford Focus.

https://www.motoringresearch.com/car-news/cost-car-year-born has quite a lot of data and it seems that inflation-adjusted prices for cars have been pretty static since 1950.  Although in 2017 you get MUCH more for your money (power, space, and technology) and of course we are much richer than in 1950 so as a proportion of average income cars are now much cheaper. 

Logged
Noggin
Sr. Member
****
Posts: 205


View Profile
« Reply #3 on: March 22, 2017, 08:44:38 PM »

I can't give you the figures for what the cost to build, run and maintain. But let's keep things simple, leave diesel engines out of the equation and compare a 304 to a 319 to a 387. 

The 387 is much more comfortable than either of its predecessors, faster, quieter, more reliable, better performance, higher crashworthiness (especially for drivers), better spec interiors. You've got features like on-board CCTV, the toilets are much higher quality, they are far more accessible for the disabled and visually impaired and so forth. Whilst the aircon and performance probably mean higher energy consumption, they have regenerative braking, which I don't believe the 304 or 319 had.

Mechanically they are far more advanced and far more reliable, with things like on-board diagnostics which mean that problems can be caught and fixed far faster, with maintenance planned before the unit even comes back to the depot. I don't have figures, but I'd suspect that the amount of labour needed to maintain each unit is significantly lower with each generation, and the mean-time-between-failure is much lower to boot.

So even between the 319s and 387s you have a big difference in quality and technology, so you're simply not comparing like with like.

Probably to do with having kids and getting old, but every time I get in coaching stock or cars built before about 1980, I'm conscious that in the event of a crash I'd probably be dead, or seriously injured, whereas with modern stock or cars I think I'd be far likelier to get away with it.   
Logged
Tim
TransWilts Member
Hero Member
******
Posts: 2530


View Profile
« Reply #4 on: March 23, 2017, 09:26:45 AM »

....indeed.

Moderns trains may not be any cheaper to buy, but their utilisation is much higher.  They spend far less time being repaired or waiting between turns.  Same with aircraft.  EasyJet is able to be cheap not because their airbuses are cheap but because they minimise the time they spend on the ground.  They even spec their planes with wider aisles in order to speed up boarding. 
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: [1]
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants