Blooming ridiculous!

[whole diary]

[Lee]

I still dont get why the 06.51 from Pompey stops Avoncliff/Freshford!

I'm sure Lee can probably put his finger on it, but I've a feeling that it was First's way of meeting the minimum frequency set out in the specification, if not could claim they were exceeding it, it would take me a while to look at the spec and compare with current timetabling, there were some oddities.

The only thing that I would add is this - Avoncliff and Freshford benefit from having some influential people fighting their corner.

On the specification, FGW^▸ (First Great Western) are allowed to add extra stops in franchise services, as long as the other requirements of the spec are met.

[tramway]

And apparently Dr Day^s is to slow, don^t ask me why, but you wait in the chord until everyone else is happy, then they let you through. Had quite a few naps sat outside the Rhubarb Tavern (on the train that is).

You have to wait for a path, pretty difficult out of Dr Days Jn and Rhubarb Curve as you cross a few running lines. Not impossible though. "Too slow" isn't really a valid excuse if that's what FGW^▸ (First Great Western) have been putting out!! 

That's what I meant, in retrospect it would have been better if I'd said that taking the train into BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) made things a lot easier. It was quite frequently delayed waiting for the path, I don't know if recent timetable changes would make this a proposition again as IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) it was generally an Arriva service we waited for to clear.

[tramway]

The only thing that I would add is this - Avoncliff and Freshford benefit from having some influential people fighting their corner.

They have to be, Avoncliff gets the same frequency service as Trowbridge in the peak, and looking at the 05/06 figures Trowbridge comes in as the 522nd busiest station on the network whereas Avoncliff is 2169th. 

[Graz]

A slightly interesting point- on my travels back to Bath in the evening peak we're called into Avoncliff about 40% of the time, Dilton Marsh about 60%. We get at least 20 passengers from Trowbridge daily. Usually just 1 or 2 on at Avoncliff, normally someone off. Not too bad considering it's not the peak direction of travel for that time of day.

tranway, how often does the train stop at Avoncliff in the morning peak?

[Jim]

AT LAST - WHAT WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
Extract from press relese on the website - http://firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=95
This includes leasing five additional Class 150 units to release Class 158 trains to strengthen the Cardiff-Portsmouth service from May 2008, which will increase capacity by 40% on most services on this route.

[Lee]

AT LAST - WHAT WE HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR
Extract from press relese on the website - http://firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=95
This includes leasing five additional Class 150 units to release Class 158 trains to strengthen the Cardiff-Portsmouth service from May 2008, which will increase capacity by 40% on most services on this route.

See also link below.
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1862.msg13465#msg13465

[tramway]

tranway, how often does the train stop at Avoncliff in the morning peak?

Bit of a loaded question there.

It only needs 9 people who are happy to travel at different times in the morning and you stop every one, this is obviously an extreme scenario as facts don^t bear this out, In/Out figures put Avoncliff at approx 10,000 whereas if there were 9 people who used Avoncliff for the standard 220 working days then this equates to 35,000, and the 35k obviously doesn^t take into account all the summer visitors to the Cross Guns.

Assumption being that there are a lot of free trips for the bigwigs around Avoncliff then.

Although I^m variable in my travelling habits in the mornings, I would agree that not all trains stop but it^s a slow run from BoA^» (Bradford-on-Avon - next trains) as it^s approx 1-2 miles to Avoncliff and approx speed for request can^t be more than 20 mph?? (guessing there).

But going back to my premise of a West Wilts fast service to Bristol Central/North in the morning peak should be an option. Using the xx.03 (or thereabouts) making an hourly service, still leaves the shacks with an almost ^ hourly service, not unreasonable I think, properly promoted I^m sure there^s untapped demand and considering the popularity of the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service this has to be unquestioned. IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) that used to be an ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)), it^s now full 159.

[Lee]

But going back to my premise of a West Wilts fast service to Bristol Central/North in the morning peak should be an option. Using the xx.03 (or thereabouts) making an hourly service, still leaves the shacks with an almost ^ hourly service, not unreasonable I think, properly promoted I^m sure there^s untapped demand and considering the popularity of the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service this has to be unquestioned. IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) that used to be an ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)), it^s now full 159.

No objections to calling at Bradford-on-Avon, Keynsham & Oldfield Park, which the SWT service does, tramway?

[Graz]

Thanks for that tramway I personally think a fast service would be a good idea but I wouldn't really want it to replace a local service so to speak, as I know from experience how high demand is at Oldfield Park and Keynsham in the morning.

If only it were possible to build another track from Bath to Bristol to allow Bath-Bristol only trains to run, to cater for Oldfield park/Keynsham in the peak...

[tramway]

I was hoping you wouldn^t ask that one Lee as it possibly makes me seem to be Trowbridge centred, which is not what I^m trying to be, rather ^West Wilts^, a bit like Graham, but focusing on Bristol rather than Swindon.

I suppose it depends on capacity given to the remaining services, is half hourly unreasonable for Bradford and Oldfield if capacity is adequate?. Then I would say lose them, Keynsham may be a different argument, say alternate Keynsham/Bradford. I^m just trying to put forward a case for a popular outer suburban run for Warminster/Frome/Westbury/Trowbridge, the arguments that support a cross Wilts service are certainly relevant in an improved Bristol one.

Would SWT^▸ (South West Trains) run Filton/Parkway then ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) before the Waterloo service, or make it a Parkway special round Dr Days, if there is a reliable path.

I just have a feeling that the 1 hour journey in the morning is way outside what a marginal rail passenger is likely to consider a reason to get out of the car, unless BCC^» (Bristol City Council - about) come over all draconian, not likely in the near future. Considering the nightmare that the roads are around this neck of the woods people are still prepared to sit it out, rail must be doing something wrong. (Can^t be bad publicity surely )

Graz

I was thinking just 2 car 158 for the quick run as you wouldn^t need the capacity (initially), making all others 4 car 150/158, or 150/153. I haven^t looked at a ^seats/hour^ figure at each stop under this option as compared to currently, but if a 150/2 with 2+2 seating then it^s approx 300 seats in a 4 car set, therefore 600/hour at Oldfield, given a ^ hourly frequency, I^ll need a bit more time to do better maths, and think a bit more about loadings.

[smokey]

Thanks for that tramway I personally think a fast service would be a good idea but I wouldn't really want it to replace a local service so to speak, as I know from experience how high demand is at Oldfield Park and Keynsham in the morning.

If only it were possible to build another track from Bath to Bristol to allow Bath-Bristol only trains to run, to cater for Oldfield park/Keynsham in the peak...

Of course with the Tax Payers money just about ANY improvement is possible on the railway network but major schemes will never take off whilst the DfT^» (Department for Transport - about) consider money spent on ROADS as INVESTMENT, and Money spent on RAILWAYS as SUBSIDY.
The travelling public will have a much better railway WHEN a level playing field is appiled to Road against Rail by DfT.

[Lee]

I was hoping you wouldn^t ask that one Lee as it possibly makes me seem to be Trowbridge centred, which is not what I^m trying to be, rather ^West Wilts^, a bit like Graham, but focusing on Bristol rather than Swindon.

I suppose it depends on capacity given to the remaining services, is half hourly unreasonable for Bradford and Oldfield if capacity is adequate?. Then I would say lose them, Keynsham may be a different argument, say alternate Keynsham/Bradford. I^m just trying to put forward a case for a popular outer suburban run for Warminster/Frome/Westbury/Trowbridge, the arguments that support a cross Wilts service are certainly relevant in an improved Bristol one.

Would SWT^▸ (South West Trains) run Filton/Parkway then ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) before the Waterloo service, or make it a Parkway special round Dr Days, if there is a reliable path.

I just have a feeling that the 1 hour journey in the morning is way outside what a marginal rail passenger is likely to consider a reason to get out of the car, unless BCC^» (Bristol City Council - about) come over all draconian, not likely in the near future. Considering the nightmare that the roads are around this neck of the woods people are still prepared to sit it out, rail must be doing something wrong. (Can^t be bad publicity surely )

Graz

I was thinking just 2 car 158 for the quick run as you wouldn^t need the capacity (initially), making all others 4 car 150/158, or 150/153. I haven^t looked at a ^seats/hour^ figure at each stop under this option as compared to currently, but if a 150/2 with 2+2 seating then it^s approx 300 seats in a 4 car set, therefore 600/hour at Oldfield, given a ^ hourly frequency, I^ll need a bit more time to do better maths, and think a bit more about loadings.

I look forward to reading what you come up with.

[swlines]

Would SWT^▸ (South West Trains) run Filton/Parkway then ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)) before the Waterloo service, or make it a Parkway special round Dr Days, if there is a reliable path.

You have more chance of FGW^▸ (First Great Western) operating to Wick than you do of SWT operating beyond Temple Meads.... at the moment.

[thefab442]

No objections to calling at Bradford-on-Avon, Keynsham & Oldfield Park, which the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service does, tramway?

Only the 06.40 from Salisbury calls at Oldfield Park and Keynsham, the evening return from Salisbury also stops at Keynsham. However, they all stop at Bradford-on-Avon, I believe they did this prior to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) adding the stop on all services.

[Lee]

No objections to calling at Bradford-on-Avon, Keynsham & Oldfield Park, which the SWT^▸ (South West Trains) service does, tramway?

Only the 06.40 from Salisbury calls at Oldfield Park and Keynsham, the evening return from Salisbury also stops at Keynsham. However, they all stop at Bradford-on-Avon, I believe they did this prior to FGW^▸ (First Great Western) adding the stop on all services.

I am well aware of that, thankyou.

The conversation was referring to the morning peak service. Kindly read/quote the entire post before trying to make me look stupid :

But going back to my premise of a West Wilts fast service to Bristol Central/North in the morning peak should be an option. Using the xx.03 (or thereabouts) making an hourly service, still leaves the shacks with an almost ^ hourly service, not unreasonable I think, properly promoted I^m sure there^s untapped demand and considering the popularity of the SWT service this has to be unquestioned. IIRC^▸ (if I recall/remember/read correctly) that used to be an ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) to BTM^▸ (Bristol Temple Meads (strictly, it should be BRI)), it^s now full 159.

No objections to calling at Bradford-on-Avon, Keynsham & Oldfield Park, which the SWT service does, tramway?