Train Graphic
Great Western Passengers' Forum Great Western Coffee Shop - [home] and [about]
Read about the forum [here].
Register and contribute [here] - it's free.
 29/10/2018 - Avocet line AGM
30/10/2018 - Minehaed Rail Link Group
31/10/2018 - CCIF Applications close
06/11/2018 - Talk Oxford / 800 intro
10/11/2018 - RailFuture National Conference
13/11/2018 - PEW, Wolmar, to edge of world
Random Image
Train Running @GWR Twitter Acronyms/Abbreviations Station Comparator Rail News GWR co. site Site Style 1 2 3 4 Chat on off
October 23, 2018, 11:23:32 am *
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Forgotten your username or password? - get a reminder
Most liked recent subjects
[49] Hotels and B&Bs near railway stations
[39] 2018 cancellation and amendment log
[17] Bristol Undergound
[16] Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since Septemb...
[15] Tram Surfer Awarded 485000 Damages
[14] Cotswold Line - 2018 cancellation and amendments log
News: A forum for passengers ... with input from rail professionals welcomed too
 
   Home   Help Search Calendar Login Register  
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
Author Topic: Boardmasters - surfer event, August 2017 - travel problems  (Read 5578 times)
LiskeardRich
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3085

richardwarwicker@hotmail.co.uk
View Profile
« Reply #15 on: August 14, 2017, 06:52:26 pm »

Gwr had 2000 extra seats from  Newquay this morning. The long single line means little can be done to increase frequency with just one platform at Newquay.
They also had a fleet of coaches direct  running from Newquay to Exeter St Davids. (I imagine quicker than the trains)
The line doesn't have the capacity for several thousand all turning up at once and there is very little gwr can do no matter what they do or plan in advance
Logged
Andy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 409



View Profile
« Reply #16 on: August 14, 2017, 08:15:47 pm »

It's not for GWR to build but a second operational platform at Newquay would make a significant difference. 
Logged
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3975


View Profile
« Reply #17 on: August 14, 2017, 10:11:23 pm »

It's not for GWR to build but a second operational platform at Newquay would make a significant difference. 

......didn't someone once mention something about "Building a Greater West"?  Roll Eyes
Logged
Tim
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 2732


View Profile
« Reply #18 on: August 15, 2017, 09:11:18 am »

Because the HSTs are fully utilised in the AM peak? And with insufficient time to get them bacjk to PLY for 1035.....the organisers ought to put on coach transport rather than relying on a few trains

Is there not a similar problem with coaches being fully utilised in the peak too?  (maybe not in the school holidays)
Logged
ChrisB
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 9701


View Profile Email
« Reply #19 on: August 15, 2017, 09:35:16 am »

Not in the school holidays....

Totally impractical, cost-wise, for infrastructure enhancements for something once a year. Frankly, 50,000 leaving any town/city all at once will cause problems anywhere in the UK.
Logged
Timmer
Global Moderator
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4795


View Profile
« Reply #20 on: August 15, 2017, 10:34:30 am »

Frankly, 50,000 leaving any town/city all at once will cause problems anywhere in the UK.
Especially in Cornwall which is already full of holidaymakers.
Logged
bignosemac
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 16066


Question everything.


View Profile
« Reply #21 on: August 15, 2017, 10:58:04 am »

50,000 was the total attendance. GWR would only have been expected to move a percentage of that number. No more than 1/3 I'd estimate.

GWR manage tens of thousands at Castle Cary every year for Mr Eavis' little shindig.  Bar the odd fallow year at Worthy Farm.

Yes, doubtless easier at a main line station compared to a terminus on a long branch, but it's not impossible to provide Newquay with strengthened services consisting of HSTs.

GWR need to be more proactive when it comes to events where large numbers can be expected to travel by train using their network. They do a sterling job with Glastonbury and Reading Festivals, have improved their efforts with events in Cardiff and Newbury racecourse. But elsewhere there is much more they could and should do. When properly planned and organised the railways are excellent at moving large crowds to and from events. And yes, CrossCountry should have pitched in too.

I agree the organisers of Boardmasters should also have done more. Particularly when their website for 2017 says this about train travel:

Quote

The closest train station is NEWQUAY - a ten minute drive to the main arena. www.thetrainline.com

Newquay station has fast direct services from London, the Midlands, the North and Scotland.

The companies running services are Virgin, Great Western, Wales and West Trains.


That really is shockingly poor, and hugely out out of date, information. Virgin and Wales & West in Cornwall in 2017? And a link to thetrainline? National Rail Enquiries would be much more appropriate.

 
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 11:15:03 am by bignosemac » Logged

Former FGW/GWR regular passenger. No more. Despicable company.
Andy
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 409



View Profile
« Reply #22 on: August 15, 2017, 11:38:39 am »

It's not for GWR to build but a second operational platform at Newquay would make a significant difference. 

......didn't someone once mention something about "Building a Greater West"?  Roll Eyes

Indeed they did.... :-) The planned expansion of Newquay, much of which is alongside the branch line, could be a source of further patronage of the line - especially if a halt were constructed in the Trencreek area, providing fast access to the town centre. However, the service would need to be a bit more frequent, which is impossible without a second platform at Newquay.   
https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/media/3629939/A0-plan-CS4-.pdf

The "Masterplan" actually provides for the construction of a halt.

https://www.cornwall.gov.uk/media/3629940/Panel-4-MASTERPLAN-FOR-NEWQUAY-GROWTH-AREA.pdf
« Last Edit: August 15, 2017, 11:53:25 am by Andy » Logged
John R
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4416


View Profile
« Reply #23 on: August 15, 2017, 12:09:40 pm »

Gwr had 2000 extra seats from  Newquay this morning. The long single line means little can be done to increase frequency with just one platform at Newquay.
They also had a fleet of coaches direct  running from Newquay to Exeter St Davids. (I imagine quicker than the trains)
The line doesn't have the capacity for several thousand all turning up at once and there is very little gwr can do no matter what they do or plan in advance
How did they manage that (the 2,000 extra seats)?

Is the passing loop at Goonbarrow still operational.  And if it is, is it long enough to enable trains of meaningful length to pass.

The Newquay line does appear to be a missed opportunity to serve adequately a market that would benefit from an improved service. There were plans floated a few years ago to reopen the short section of line from St Dennis Jn to the Parkandillack branch.  This would have linked Newquay with St Austell, enabled a faster service to the main line, and more frequent services to operate with one unit.  Sadly nothing came of it, possibly (as well as cost) because the plans would undermine the existing route to Par, and the thorny question of whether to close that route or have the additional costs of a second route was too difficult. 
Logged
Adelante_CCT
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1135



View Profile
« Reply #24 on: August 15, 2017, 01:09:49 pm »

Quote
How did they manage that (the 2,000 extra seats)?

An HST shuttled between Newquay and Plymouth 3 times, with normal stopping services replaced by buses, so in total it probably was 2000 extra seats across the day rather than just the morning.


Quote
It's not for GWR to build but a second operational platform at Newquay would make a significant difference. 

I don't see how an extra platform would help much, it's the single line that is the constraint
Logged
The Tall Controller
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 304


View Profile
« Reply #25 on: August 15, 2017, 01:26:43 pm »

The passing loop at Goonbarrow is very much operational and easily allows two HSTs to pass.

A second platform would help a little bit as long distance trains must have a 40 minute turnaround at terminal stations. It could allow an additional train to arrive before heading back out.

The problem with the Newquay branch is that it is at the end of a long line that serves relatively small places along it's route. Local trains can do the branch in 50 minutes with HSTs taking slightly longer. It doesn't compare favourably when put next to the Penzance route which takes only 10 minutes longer but serves much bigger places. Putting a HST on the branch for 2.5 hours just for Newquay's benefit isn't economically sensible. The weekday HST to Newquay runs almost empty past Par usually.

Obviously Boardmasters is a different issue. GWR did run additional HSTs as well as coaches from Newquay but the infrastructure on the branch just isn't up to transporting 0000s of additional people. The best you could get out of the branch would be an hourly service but that requires all incoming trains to be locally sourced (to allow 5 minute turnarounds)
Logged
martyjon
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 1166


View Profile
« Reply #26 on: August 16, 2017, 12:21:51 am »

When the UEFA cup final was held in Cardiff recently GWR hired in a loco and coaches to cover the Weymouth Wizard whilst the usual HST provided additional Paddington - Cardiff capacity.

For this event why couldn't GWR ;

1.  hire in that set or equivalent again with locos at each end and work as a push- pull set calling at all stations on the line with passengers at wayside stations boarding and leaving the train through the guard/train managers door only;

2.  startback the last HST off Laira depot for the daily Plymouth - London diagrams at Newquay;

3.  have the hired in loco and coaches run to Goonbarrow Loop and wait for the 2 above to clear the single line Newquay to Goonbarrow;

4.  run the loco and coaches Goonbarrow - Newquay, embark passengers and return to Par;

5.  return the loco and coaches to Newquay, embark passengers and return to Par, thence Plymouth passing 6 below at Goonbarrow;

6.  divert the 1st or 2nd London - Penzance service of the day to Newquay with passengers transferring at Par to the unit that would normally provide the Newquay service but on this occasion would be spare. This unit would also provide the return working of the diverted Penzance service from Penzance to Par/Plymouth;

7.  return 6 above from Newquay passing the daily London - Newquay at Goonbarrow and then to London;

8.  Return the daily Newquay - London as normal;

9.  return the loco and coaches from Plymouth to Par and thence Newquay using this set to cover the Newquay diagram until about 1800 hrs when the normal unit which would cover the Newquay diagram should be back at Par from Plymouth and thus available for the usual Newquay diagram.

Easy with a bit of thought.

The problem with re-instating a 2nd platform at Newquay is the single line. Network Rail would have to install a single line token instrument at Newquay, plus a ground frame unlocked by the single line staff and operated by a train crew member.

The last time I travelled to Newquay the infrastrusture still had a number of coach stabling sidngs which contained stock used on local services and two rakes of coaches which were for the Summer Saturdays only services terminating at Newquay and stabled there until the next Saturday, local services still ran from Newquay to Goonhaven, Perranporth, St. Agnes thence either Chacewater to Truro or Scorrier, Redruth and onto Penzance but Beeching put paid to all that local traffic.                                                                                                                     
Logged
IndustryInsider
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 6717


View Profile
« Reply #27 on: August 16, 2017, 02:39:22 am »

How many additional seats, on top of the 2000 or so extra ones GWR provided anyway, would your plan have provided, martyjon?  Also, are there any restrictions on top and tailed locomotives hauled trains on the branch?
Logged

To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
TaplowGreen
Transport Scholar
Hero Member
******
Posts: 3975


View Profile
« Reply #28 on: August 16, 2017, 06:52:40 am »

If the railways can't cope with this type of event, then they must limit ticket sales instead of just irresponsibly continuing to sell tickets for capacity which doesn't exist.

GWR are happy to continue to take the money whenever these events occur irrespective of the extreme overcrowding, discomfort, danger, delays etc which occur.

If you sell a ticket for a product or service, people have every right to expect it to be provided. If you are unable to provide it in an acceptable, reasonable and timely manner, don't sell it - manage expectations up front about what will be provided and sell tickets accordingly.
Logged
John R
Hero Member
*****
Posts: 4416


View Profile
« Reply #29 on: August 16, 2017, 06:59:29 am »

How do you limit ticket sales made on the day, bearing in mind they will be being made at stations, TVMs and on trains up and down the country?
Logged
Do you have something you would like to add to this thread, or would you like to raise a new question at the Coffee Shop? Please [register] (it is free) if you have not done so before, or login (at the top of this page) if you already have an account - we would love to read what you have to say!

You can find out more about how this forum works [here] - that will link you to a copy of the forum agreement that you can read before you join, and tell you very much more about how we operate. We are an independent forum, provided and run by customers of Great Western Railway, for customers of Great Western Railway and we welcome railway professionals as members too, in either a personal or official capacity. Views expressed in posts are not necessarily the views of the operators of the forum.

As well as posting messages onto existing threads, and starting new subjects, members can communicate with each other through personal messages if they wish. And once members have made a certain number of posts, they will automatically be admitted to the "frequent posters club", where subjects not-for-public-domain are discussed; anything from the occasional rant to meetups we may be having ...

 
Pages: 1 [2] 3
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.2 | SMF © 2006-2007, Simple Machines LLC Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!
This forum is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway (formerly First Great Western), and the views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that the content provided by one of our posters contravenes our posting rules (email link). Forum hosted by Well House Consultants