Shortage of train crews on Great Western Railway since September 2017 - ongoing discussion

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

Just for the record, as posts about cancellations across the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) network have appeared on other threads, that there were many cancellations and short running of services the weekend of the 19th and 20th of August.

There was no industrial action or any overtime ban in place and yet it’s been one of worst weekends for cancellations for quite sometime.

Indeed. Yesterday was a classic "BBQ Sunday" on GWR, just when the railway needs to be stepping up to attract the leisure traffic.

[IndustryInsider]

Sunday’s haven’t been targeted for any action at all.  Though I agree it’s interesting that Saturday just gone was comparably bad with other Saturday’s when action hasbeen taking place.

[ellendune]

Just for the record, as posts about cancellations across the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) network have appeared on other threads, that there were many cancellations and short running of services the weekend of the 19th and 20th of August.

There was no industrial action or any overtime ban in place and yet it’s been one of worst weekends for cancellations for quite sometime.

Indeed. Yesterday was a classic "BBQ Sunday" on GWR, just when the railway needs to be stepping up to attract the leisure traffic.

Please remember railway staff need holidays as well and for many (if not most) that will mean during the school summer holidays.  Its all very well saying leave has to be taken when it suits the business, but if people can't have a decent family life then they tend to go off and find another job.  Then you have even fewer people to cover the shifts. 

[TaplowGreen]

Just for the record, as posts about cancellations across the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) network have appeared on other threads, that there were many cancellations and short running of services the weekend of the 19th and 20th of August.

There was no industrial action or any overtime ban in place and yet it’s been one of worst weekends for cancellations for quite sometime.

Indeed. Yesterday was a classic "BBQ Sunday" on GWR, just when the railway needs to be stepping up to attract the leisure traffic.

Please remember railway staff need holidays as well and for many (if not most) that will mean during the school summer holidays.  Its all very well saying leave has to be taken when it suits the business, but if people can't have a decent family life then they tend to go off and find another job.  Then you have even fewer people to cover the shifts. 

Fully appreciate that.

Workforce management is a challenge faced by all businesses. It just seems that the railways are consistently spectacularly bad at it.

Also appreciate that this goes back to employment strategies which pre-date COVID and were within GWR's gift to resolve for many years, and accountability largely sits with those in the Boardroom rather than managers on the ground.

[grahame]

Just for the record, as posts about cancellations across the GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) network have appeared on other threads, that there were many cancellations and short running of services the weekend of the 19th and 20th of August.

There was no industrial action or any overtime ban in place and yet it’s been one of worst weekends for cancellations for quite sometime.

Indeed. Yesterday was a classic "BBQ Sunday" on GWR, just when the railway needs to be stepping up to attract the leisure traffic.

Please remember railway staff need holidays as well and for many (if not most) that will mean during the school summer holidays.  Its all very well saying leave has to be taken when it suits the business, but if people can't have a decent family life then they tend to go off and find another job.  Then you have even fewer people to cover the shifts. 

I can't speak for the people you quote, ellendune - but I can comment as an operator of a business for over a decade on which our busiest day was Sunday and we were often most hard worked at Easter and the other summer bank holidays. We had certain times / shifts that were not popular, but our staff had all joined us with the knowledge that there was going to be substantive work outside 9 to 5, Monday to Friday (I can't think of any common shifts that fitted that "normal working hours pattern.  

It can be done, and with compassion and understanding too.   Saturday / Sunday / Holiday periods are not the time everyone wants off ...

You talk of people tending to go off and find another job?  No - we had virtually zero turnover on the core team; a few joined us for a very short while and found that they didn't really enjoy the work and moved on.

[a-driver]

I can't speak for the people you quote, ellendune - but I can comment as an operator of a business for over a decade on which our busiest day was Sunday and we were often most hard worked at Easter and the other summer bank holidays. We had certain times / shifts that were not popular, but our staff had all joined us with the knowledge that there was going to be substantive work outside 9 to 5, Monday to Friday (I can't think of any common shifts that fitted that "normal working hours pattern.  

It can be done, and with compassion and understanding too.   Saturday / Sunday / Holiday periods are not the time everyone wants off ...

You talk of people tending to go off and find another job?  No - we had virtually zero turnover on the core team; a few joined us for a very short while and found that they didn't really enjoy the work and moved on.

The difference on the railway is that Sunday’s for some are outside of the working week and have always been covered on a voluntary basis.  It’s contracted that way.  The companies and the government do not want Sundays in the working week because it requires substantially more staff increasing costs.  Indeed the recent offer on pay comes with the condition that staff will be required to work overtime to cover Sunday shifts.  There are no discussions to bring Sundays into the working week and unlikely to ever be.

With staff morale at rock bottom, the abysmal diagramming, constant failures of the infrastructure and rolling stock, the grief far out ways the extra income so staff are sticking two fingers up to Sunday’s

The other issue with Sundays is the obvious later start up.  Early shifts can start anytime between 0700 to 1000. With a turn length of between 8 and 10 hours, that’s the whole day with the family lost and meal times affected. 

[Timmer]

The difference on the railway is that Sunday’s for some are outside of the working week and have always been covered on a voluntary basis.  It’s contracted that way.  The companies and the government do not want Sundays in the working week because it requires substantially more staff increasing costs.  Indeed the recent offer on pay comes with the condition that staff will be required to work overtime to cover Sunday shifts.  There are no discussions to bring Sundays into the working week and unlikely to ever be.

With staff morale at rock bottom, the abysmal diagramming, constant failures of the infrastructure and rolling stock, the grief far out ways the extra income so staff are sticking two fingers up to Sunday’s

The other issue with Sundays is the obvious later start up.  Early shifts can start anytime between 0700 to 1000. With a turn length of between 8 and 10 hours, that’s the whole day with the family lost and meal times affected. 

Thank you for the explanation regards Sundays a-driver. What was the reason for the sub standard offering on Saturday, particularly later in the day into the evening?

On the Cardiff-Portsmouth line it wasn't down to a lack of drivers as some cancelled services ran ECS^▸ (Empty Coaching Stock) suggesting shortage of guards, possibly at Westbury. Same thing happening again on this line today with some services in both directions ending at Westbury.

[ellendune]

I think if you compare the responses from Grahame and A-Driver you get a good picture.  If you treat people right then they will go out of the way to make things work.  Treat them badly or just incompetently and why should they bother. 

Interested that government don't want Sundays to be part of the working week.  They just want others to sort their problems for them on the cheap!

[old original]

Also another thing which changed was the rates paid for different bits of overtime. Speaking purely for stations, but the same sort of thing has been negotiated for other grades.
Back in the early 2000's we were under "old" BR^▸ (British Rail(ways)) terms & conditions so when it came to overtime you had ...
Rest day work = time + 1/2
Sunday's = time + 3/4
Saturday's = time + 1/4
Ordinary o/t = time +1/4 for the first 3 hours then time +1/2
Before 6am time + 1/3
After 9pm time + 1/4
Shift allowance, if your earliest booking on time was more than 12 hours from your latest booking off time over a monthly shift pattern, gave an extra 6.25%

... and so on... there was even an instance where, somehow, can't quite remember how but something like working your rest day on a Saturday after 9pm was time + 7/12!!

Messy? Yes but still an incentive..

To tidy all this up management decided to up the basic pay and do away with nearly all the above.
The uplift varied from 3% to 20% with the greatest gainers on the platform and the least in ticket offices and the only enhancement left was time + 1/4 on Sundays.

So what do you think was going to happen?

[grahame]

The rail system is - well - complex in my view; thanks for those insights.   If we had had to start from there, it would have been a significant challenge to put it mildly.

[TaplowGreen]

Cancellations to services between Gloucester and Worcester Foregate Street

Due to a shortage of train crew between Gloucester and Worcester Foregate Street fewer trains are able to run on some lines.

Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 09:30 24/08.

[IndustryInsider]

Cancellations to services between Gloucester and Worcester Foregate Street

Due to a shortage of train crew between Gloucester and Worcester Foregate Street fewer trains are able to run on some lines.

Train services running through these stations may be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 09:30 24/08.

Rather a dramatic message for what in reality meant the cancellation of one trip!

[TaplowGreen]

Cancellations to services between West Ealing and Greenford

Due to a shortage of train crew between West Ealing and Greenford all lines are closed.

Train services running to and from these stations will be cancelled. Disruption is expected until 08:00 21/09.

[grahame]

Long list of cancellations tomorrow

Fri, 29 September 04:59 Swansea to London Paddington due 07:44

29/09/23 04:59 Swansea to London Paddington due 07:44 will be cancelled.
This is due to a shortage of train crew.

and other cancellations

Fri, 29 September 06:05 Bristol Temple Meads to Weston-Super-Mare due 06:34
Fri, 29 September 06:05 Penzance to London Paddington due 11:29
Fri, 29 September 06:30 Bristol Temple Meads to London Paddington due 08:09
Fri, 29 September 07:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 09:30
Fri, 29 September 09:10 Penzance to London Paddington due 14:27
Fri, 29 September 09:30 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 11:32
Fri, 29 September 10:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 12:31
Fri, 29 September 11:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 13:31
Fri, 29 September 11:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 13:59
Fri, 29 September 12:35 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids due 15:08
Fri, 29 September 12:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 14:59
Fri, 29 September 13:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 15:30
Fri, 29 September 13:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 15:57
Fri, 29 September 14:00 Cardiff Central to Penzance due 19:40
Fri, 29 September 14:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 16:32
Fri, 29 September 14:36 London Paddington to Paignton due 17:44
Fri, 29 September 15:00 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 16:56
Fri, 29 September 15:42 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington due 18:07
Fri, 29 September 16:00 London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads due 17:34
Fri, 29 September 17:11 Taunton to Cardiff Central due 19:27
Fri, 29 September 17:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 19:59
Fri, 29 September 18:48 London Paddington to Swansea due 21:34
Fri, 29 September 19:04 Paignton to London Paddington due 22:29
Fri, 29 September 19:28 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 21:44
Fri, 29 September 19:33 London Paddington to Worcester Shrub Hill due 22:08
Fri, 29 September 19:58 Cardiff Central to Taunton due 22:07
Fri, 29 September 22:10 Weston-Super-Mare to Bristol Temple Meads due 22:49

other changes to

Fri, 29 September 06:00 London Paddington to Penzance due 11:40
Fri, 29 September 06:28 Swansea to London Paddington due 09:14
Fri, 29 September 06:40 Penzance to Cardiff Central due 12:21
Fri, 29 September 06:52 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 09:05
Fri, 29 September 07:03 London Paddington to Paignton due 10:16
Fri, 29 September 07:23 Carmarthen to London Paddington due 11:12
Fri, 29 September 07:40 Penzance to Cardiff Central due 13:26
Fri, 29 September 08:28 London Paddington to Weston-Super-Mare due 10:38
Fri, 29 September 12:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 17:08
Fri, 29 September 12:15 Penzance to London Paddington due 17:31
Fri, 29 September 14:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 19:23
Fri, 29 September 15:28 Weston-Super-Mare to London Paddington due 17:35
Fri, 29 September 15:31 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 17:30
Fri, 29 September 15:50 Penzance to Gloucester due 20:56
Fri, 29 September 16:03 London Paddington to Penzance due 21:20
Fri, 29 September 16:28 London Paddington to Taunton due 19:12
Fri, 29 September 16:59 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 18:59

Goodness - how many crew is that -?-?-?

[TaplowGreen]

Overtime ban starts tomorrow I think?