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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 158264 times)
broadgage
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« Reply #480 on: May 24, 2018, 10:50:30 am »

Apparently another issue is the system gets confused when it loses its GPS “fix” while passing through tunnels.  Hence why after the tunnels at Twerton on an up service it gets out of sync with regard to the Bath Spa station stop.

That would explain the confusion around Keynsham, as the train would have passed through the long tunnel at St Annes after leaving Bristol. But was this not an issue in HSTs? I don't remember it being one, and if not, how have we ended up with a worse system in these new trains?

HSTs don't have automatic announcements so the issue doesn't arise.

Presumably no one could have foreseen the lack of a GPS signal in tunnels ?
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
WelshBluebird
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« Reply #481 on: May 24, 2018, 10:57:46 am »

I've just read that there's no little cycle logo to identify which door to put bikes in on the IETs, and that this is because Hitachi refused to allow it as part of the vinyl wrap. Can this really be true?
http://road.cc/content/news/242347-train-manufacturer-said-be-preventing-gwr-putting-cycle-logos-carriages-where
Quote
Now road.cc reader Oliver Strother has been in touch to flag up another problem with getting a bike onto a GWR service, one related to new rolling stock and the difficulty he encountered finding the part of the train where cycles are stored – and once he did, how poor the facility was.

One of the problems he had was that unlike on the previous trains that the new ones have replaced, there is no sticker with a picture of a bicycle on the side of the carriage where bikes can be placed – and he was later told that the reason was that the train manufacturer, Hitachi, won’t permit them.

That seems rather strange to us – given that the bike storage area isn’t going to move around the train, surely the bicycle logo could (and should) have been incorporated in the vinyl wrap of the GWR livery?

Quote
Head to platform, train arrives, as the train passes I look for cycle symbol but there isn't one. I head to the last section of the train, but no bike symbol anywhere. #wheredoigo? Train manager Simon pops out and says carriage 'A' or 'D' , at this point I'm stood outside 'L'. (later the I'm told the staff are not permitted by Hitachi to put a bicycle sticker on the outside of the train).

Don't you have to have a reservation to carry a bike on the new trains though? And wouldn't that reservation tell you which carriage to put the bike (and if it doesn't, it should!).
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stuving
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« Reply #482 on: May 24, 2018, 11:29:50 am »

Apparently another issue is the system gets confused when it loses its GPS “fix” while passing through tunnels.  Hence why after the tunnels at Twerton on an up service it gets out of sync with regard to the Bath Spa station stop.

That would explain the confusion around Keynsham, as the train would have passed through the long tunnel at St Annes after leaving Bristol. But was this not an issue in HSTs? I don't remember it being one, and if not, how have we ended up with a worse system in these new trains?

HSTs don't have automatic announcements so the issue doesn't arise.

Presumably no one could have foreseen the lack of a GPS signal in tunnels ?

The train itself is pre-fitted with ETCS, so it must have odometers as well as balise communicators. GPS is pretty well universal, though not compulsory. So what is meant to happen before ETCS is for the odometers to be used between valid GPS fixes. However I don't imagine the ETCS funtion has even been tested, given the lack of balises to talk to, so I wonder how much else has been isolated by software sticky tape.

I presume the heavyweight software (traction and safety-critical stuff) was done mostly in advance, and probably in Japan, while the more superficial functions that have to interface with GWR's systems were done locally. Most of that can't be written until the shore systems are known, as it only does anything when they pass on the data.

With no actual information at all, I just know that the necessary specifications of the data and interfaces involved in PIS, reservations, etc. were handed over to Hitachi late, incomplete, inconsistent, partly wrong, and when they first tried their SW it didn't work and there wasn't time to sort it before first use in service.
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #483 on: May 24, 2018, 11:56:11 am »

I've just read that there's no little cycle logo to identify which door to put bikes in on the IETs, and that this is because Hitachi refused to allow it as part of the vinyl wrap. Can this really be true?
http://road.cc/content/news/242347-train-manufacturer-said-be-preventing-gwr-putting-cycle-logos-carriages-where
Quote
Now road.cc reader Oliver Strother has been in touch to flag up another problem with getting a bike onto a GWR service, one related to new rolling stock and the difficulty he encountered finding the part of the train where cycles are stored – and once he did, how poor the facility was.

One of the problems he had was that unlike on the previous trains that the new ones have replaced, there is no sticker with a picture of a bicycle on the side of the carriage where bikes can be placed – and he was later told that the reason was that the train manufacturer, Hitachi, won’t permit them.

That seems rather strange to us – given that the bike storage area isn’t going to move around the train, surely the bicycle logo could (and should) have been incorporated in the vinyl wrap of the GWR livery?

Quote
Head to platform, train arrives, as the train passes I look for cycle symbol but there isn't one. I head to the last section of the train, but no bike symbol anywhere. #wheredoigo? Train manager Simon pops out and says carriage 'A' or 'D' , at this point I'm stood outside 'L'. (later the I'm told the staff are not permitted by Hitachi to put a bicycle sticker on the outside of the train).

Don't you have to have a reservation to carry a bike on the new trains though? And wouldn't that reservation tell you which carriage to put the bike (and if it doesn't, it should!).
Yes to the first part.
Quote
So I took a punt, and went down to the station ticket office who at 1715 said there was plenty bike spaces available, so I booked a ticket avec cycle reservation.
No to the second part. Presumably because it's just a space you've reserved, not a particular space, and unlike seats, where there are five or more carriages each with fifty or more seats, there are only a small number of cycle spaces all in one place. Or maybe in two places on the 5+5 IETs.
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Phantom
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« Reply #484 on: May 24, 2018, 12:01:07 pm »

I've just read that there's no little cycle logo to identify which door to put bikes in on the IETs, and that this is because Hitachi refused to allow it as part of the vinyl wrap. Can this really be true?
http://road.cc/content/news/242347-train-manufacturer-said-be-preventing-gwr-putting-cycle-logos-carriages-where
Quote
Now road.cc reader Oliver Strother has been in touch to flag up another problem with getting a bike onto a GWR service, one related to new rolling stock and the difficulty he encountered finding the part of the train where cycles are stored – and once he did, how poor the facility was.

One of the problems he had was that unlike on the previous trains that the new ones have replaced, there is no sticker with a picture of a bicycle on the side of the carriage where bikes can be placed – and he was later told that the reason was that the train manufacturer, Hitachi, won’t permit them.

That seems rather strange to us – given that the bike storage area isn’t going to move around the train, surely the bicycle logo could (and should) have been incorporated in the vinyl wrap of the GWR livery?

Quote
Head to platform, train arrives, as the train passes I look for cycle symbol but there isn't one. I head to the last section of the train, but no bike symbol anywhere. #wheredoigo? Train manager Simon pops out and says carriage 'A' or 'D' , at this point I'm stood outside 'L'. (later the I'm told the staff are not permitted by Hitachi to put a bicycle sticker on the outside of the train).

Don't you have to have a reservation to carry a bike on the new trains though? And wouldn't that reservation tell you which carriage to put the bike (and if it doesn't, it should!).

This is an odd one at Temple Meads, as you come up the steps to Platforms 13/15 there is a sign telling people with bikes to wait by this sign and bikes will be carraiges H and J, but oddly those carraiges are never near this sign

Not seen anyone wait by this sign yet but assume some must otherwise it would have been removed by now?
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bradshaw
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« Reply #485 on: May 24, 2018, 12:39:57 pm »

New edition of Modern Railways has the latest data on the Cl 800. Ending Period 13 2017/18, whenever that is.

Unit miles 313456 wit total of 17 units. 43 TIN, technical incidents. Current miles per TIN 7289.7 moving annual average for Mile per TIN 3892. So the mileage has nearly doubled over the last 4 periods, with TINs halved; so making progress.
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paul7755
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« Reply #486 on: May 24, 2018, 12:44:07 pm »

New edition of Modern Railways has the latest data on the Cl 800. Ending Period 13 2017/18, whenever that is.
Period 13 on the railway is the last of 13 x 4 week periods up to the end of the financial year.  So in this case effectively most of March 2018.

Paul
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #487 on: May 25, 2018, 10:11:40 am »

Losing "sync" on announcements on trains or buses, is a pain, and potentially more so for the visually impaired.

Will the bike logo problem be solved when somebody vandalises the train and they have to re-finish the carriage.
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #488 on: May 27, 2018, 05:31:41 pm »

GWR responds
http://road.cc/content/news/242347-train-manufacturer-said-be-preventing-gwr-putting-cycle-logos-carriages-where
no timescale given
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Bmblbzzz
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« Reply #489 on: May 29, 2018, 04:45:05 pm »

Doesn't directly answer the original point that Hitachi had for some reason refused to allow the cycle logos on the doors, but the fact that they're having it added does make it even more unlikely than it seemed originally. So why wasn't it there from the beginning? I know they did put some thought into the bike spaces (I know someone who was involved in the original consultation) but it seems they somehow overlooked the signage.
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WelshBluebird
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« Reply #490 on: May 29, 2018, 04:52:07 pm »

I've just read that there's no little cycle logo to identify which door to put bikes in on the IETs, and that this is because Hitachi refused to allow it as part of the vinyl wrap. Can this really be true?
http://road.cc/content/news/242347-train-manufacturer-said-be-preventing-gwr-putting-cycle-logos-carriages-where
Quote
Now road.cc reader Oliver Strother has been in touch to flag up another problem with getting a bike onto a GWR service, one related to new rolling stock and the difficulty he encountered finding the part of the train where cycles are stored – and once he did, how poor the facility was.

One of the problems he had was that unlike on the previous trains that the new ones have replaced, there is no sticker with a picture of a bicycle on the side of the carriage where bikes can be placed – and he was later told that the reason was that the train manufacturer, Hitachi, won’t permit them.

That seems rather strange to us – given that the bike storage area isn’t going to move around the train, surely the bicycle logo could (and should) have been incorporated in the vinyl wrap of the GWR livery?

Quote
Head to platform, train arrives, as the train passes I look for cycle symbol but there isn't one. I head to the last section of the train, but no bike symbol anywhere. #wheredoigo? Train manager Simon pops out and says carriage 'A' or 'D' , at this point I'm stood outside 'L'. (later the I'm told the staff are not permitted by Hitachi to put a bicycle sticker on the outside of the train).

Don't you have to have a reservation to carry a bike on the new trains though? And wouldn't that reservation tell you which carriage to put the bike (and if it doesn't, it should!).
Yes to the first part.
Quote
So I took a punt, and went down to the station ticket office who at 1715 said there was plenty bike spaces available, so I booked a ticket avec cycle reservation.
No to the second part. Presumably because it's just a space you've reserved, not a particular space, and unlike seats, where there are five or more carriages each with fifty or more seats, there are only a small number of cycle spaces all in one place. Or maybe in two places on the 5+5 IETs.

Really? So the quote GWR have given - "the location of the bike reservation (ie where in the train you have been allocated a space), is clearly marked on that reservation" is a lie then?

Don't get me wrong, I think there should be some kind of indication on the outside of the train too. But if the reservation does say which carriage (which is what GWR are claiming, I can't verify as I have never had to get one) then its not THAT big of a deal.
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bobm
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« Reply #491 on: June 03, 2018, 07:44:10 am »

Away from signs on the train to those on the platform.   If they bring in any more variants they'll need to put up a new pole at Teignmouth - this one is full!

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grahame
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« Reply #492 on: June 03, 2018, 08:23:07 am »

Away from signs on the train to those on the platform.   If they bring in any more variants they'll need to put up a new pole at Teignmouth - this one is full!

Love it. Are you sure it's not the signs holding up the roof?

How about a single sign "4 cars or longer?   Stop here!"
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CyclingSid
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« Reply #493 on: June 03, 2018, 10:12:12 am »

An example from 10:58 Reading to Weston yesterday. Train was busy, only a single 5-car set. Two cyclists with reservations find one of the two spaces is already taken. Reservation system appeared not to be working/indicating. Platform staff attitude appeared to be "just get on". So two full size bikes in the vestibule, both had straight handlebars, which have trouble fitting into the bike space at the best of times. Fortunately the train manager couldn't get down the train, as the computer compartment opposite the bike space was open, and just managed to take the Brompton.  From Didcot it was full and standing, Swindon and beyond they probably left another 5-car set's worth of passengers standing on each station. Train emptied at Bath!
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broadgage
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« Reply #494 on: June 06, 2018, 05:52:32 am »

A dozen single 5 car units instead of 5+5 already announced for today.

Apologists for the new DMUs will no doubt explain that this is not the fault of the wonderful new trains, but is due to the unforeseen need to release some units for training, or some other reason.
They may well be correct, but as with other rolling stock replacements, the end result for the passenger is that new trains are shorter.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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