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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 155300 times)
grahame
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« Reply #435 on: April 13, 2018, 12:23:34 pm »

I am not convinced that the new trains being shorter* gives an automatic entitlement to use first class with a standard class ticket. Nor does the failure of GWR to honour reservations give such an entitlement

Current Conndtions of Travel:

Unless you have made a reservation please note that your Ticket does not automatically entitle you to a seat, and at busy times you may have to stand. You will not be entitled to any refund in these cases unless you hold a first class Ticket and no first class seats were available on a train service where the timetable indicated that first class seats would be provided. More information on the refund to which you are entitled in such circumstances can be found in section 31 of these Conditions.

and

Unless Train Company staff, or notices on the train give you specific permission, you cannot travel in first class accommodation (including standing in corridors or passageways) with a standard class Ticket. This applies even if there are no vacant seats in standard class.

Conditions of Carriage to 2016

Travelling in first class accommodation with a standard class ticket. If you have a standard class ticket (other than a Season Ticket), no standard class accommodation is available, and staff on that train give their permission, then you may travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) where this is available without extra charge.



Current conditions seem to make it very clear that you cannot travel in First class on a standard class ticket unless given permission by train company staff.   I might agree that's pretty harsh if you've reserved a seat, but the carriage it's in isn't available and there are no other standard class seats available on the train, but I think the correct action in such a case may be to either reclaim to ask a member of the TOC staff.

Part of me asks "why should a barrister be able to bluster his way through a circumstance that the rest of us would just give up on and pay up", but then the other part of me thinks "thank goodness someone stands up for his rights" (even though it sounds like he wan't in his rights!!).  

As described, the ticket examiner clearly made his pragmatic decision not to take the matter further at some point between moving on and the train arriving into London - he's perfectly entitled to do so.   His error was in dropping (in error, I would suspect) the barrister's business card.

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TonyK
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« Reply #436 on: April 13, 2018, 12:37:26 pm »

I laughed knowing that his business card reads, name and qualifications, Barrister, and the chambers address from which he conducts his professional services.

I must get some of those cards printed. Is it two 's's in Barisster? Or I could try my spiel "Smell the coffee, my friend. I am a leading barista..."

I am not convinced that the new trains being shorter* gives an automatic entitlement to use first class with a standard class ticket. Nor does the failure of GWR to honour reservations give such an entitlement

As described, the ticket examiner clearly made his pragmatic decision not to take the matter further at some point between moving on and the train arriving into London - he's perfectly entitled to do so.   His error was in dropping (in error, I would suspect) the barrister's business card.

Agreed. No-one wants a rum pole up the bailey. Losing the card has the hallmarks of a diplomatic accident.
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Now, please!
bignosemac
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« Reply #437 on: April 13, 2018, 04:23:26 pm »

It's a pity that the usual consumer protection doesn't apply to train tickets.

It does.

The Consumer Rights Act 2015 applies to rail travel. If the standard of service does not meet expectations customers can seek redress under the act. Its not just about compensation for delays.

If a train operator has failed to apply reasonable care and skill in providing a service then redress can be sought. First port of call is the operator. If you are not happy with their response then the next step is the (soon to go live) Rail Ombudsmen. Ultimately a passenger can seek redress through the courts.

And yes, a seat reservation not being honoured is an issue that could be covered by the Consumer Rights Act 2015.

We've already seen success in the courts for redress for delays that were outwith a train operators existing Delay Repay scheme. A passenger successfully sued for a string of delays less than 30 minutes each. The operator failed to defend the action and bailiffs were appointed to seize assets. Belatedly the operator paid the judgement.
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YouKnowNothing
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« Reply #438 on: April 13, 2018, 05:15:55 pm »

https://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Lords/2018-03-27/HL6706/

Saw this and thought of you lot
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grahame
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« Reply #439 on: April 13, 2018, 06:41:33 pm »

We've already seen success in the courts for redress for delays that were outwith a train operators existing Delay Repay scheme. A passenger successfully sued for a string of delays less than 30 minutes each. The operator failed to defend the action and bailiffs were appointed to seize assets. Belatedly the operator paid the judgement.

Made The BBC today

Quote
A commuter who sued a train firm over delays has received compensation after a court threatened to send in bailiffs to seize its assets.

Seph Pochin, 43, of Halesworth, Suffolk, has received a cheque for £462 from Greater Anglia (GA) after suing them over "appalling" delays.

He said he wanted others to use the same consumer legislation to force train firms to run a better service.

GA said it was "sorry that Mr Pochin felt the need to take this action."
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #440 on: April 13, 2018, 06:50:15 pm »

We've already seen success in the courts for redress for delays that were outwith a train operators existing Delay Repay scheme. A passenger successfully sued for a string of delays less than 30 minutes each. The operator failed to defend the action and bailiffs were appointed to seize assets. Belatedly the operator paid the judgement.

Made The BBC today

Quote
A commuter who sued a train firm over delays has received compensation after a court threatened to send in bailiffs to seize its assets.

Seph Pochin, 43, of Halesworth, Suffolk, has received a cheque for £462 from Greater Anglia (GA) after suing them over "appalling" delays.

He said he wanted others to use the same consumer legislation to force train firms to run a better service.

GA said it was "sorry that Mr Pochin felt the need to take this action."

"Sorry that Mr Pochin felt the need to take this action" - is it possible to be any more patronising?
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eXPassenger
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« Reply #441 on: April 13, 2018, 07:51:55 pm »

If I was a consumer rights lawyer commuting on the Cotswold Line I think I would have plenty of business cards ready.
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Jason
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« Reply #442 on: April 19, 2018, 06:13:44 pm »

1A23 has decided to park up on P8 at Reading
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #443 on: April 19, 2018, 06:29:41 pm »

1A23 has decided to park up on P8 at Reading

Due to dragging brakes.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
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« Reply #444 on: April 19, 2018, 11:51:31 pm »

If the issue with supposedly 10 car sets running round as 5 car sets keeps continuing GWR are either going to have to renegotiate with the unions, or order extra carriages to make these sets 7 or 8 cars. Although this is a DFT balls up, it is completely unfair to paying passengers to go from standing up on a HST, to possibly not even getting on the train because its only 5 coaches.

Where are all these promised extra onboard staff that are meant to be coming? Maybe GWR's recruitment process is too fussy?
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Boppy
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« Reply #445 on: May 03, 2018, 09:01:28 am »

Just saw 802001 pass through Reading non-stop at around 08:55.

Looks like most of the seats had their protective covers on still.

Is this one of the 802 units due to come into service shortly?
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phile
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« Reply #446 on: May 03, 2018, 09:44:48 am »

GWR Journey Check has now come up with new explanation for 5 vice 10 HSTs:-

The train is running in short formation due to alterations yesterday, which prevented trains ending yesterday at the correct depot last night for today's service.
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broadgage
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« Reply #447 on: May 03, 2018, 09:57:31 am »

If the issue with supposedly 10 car sets running round as 5 car sets keeps continuing GWR are either going to have to renegotiate with the unions, or order extra carriages to make these sets 7 or 8 cars. Although this is a DFT balls up, it is completely unfair to paying passengers to go from standing up on a HST, to possibly not even getting on the train because its only 5 coaches.

Where are all these promised extra onboard staff that are meant to be coming? Maybe GWR's recruitment process is too fussy?

And presumably no one could POSSIBLY have foreseen the need for these extra staff, and therefore started recruiting and training them in advance.
The late delivery of the new shorter trains should have given a bit of a margin for error and thereby increased the chances of being prepared.

I am a bit doubtful about extending the half length units to 7 or 8 car. Whilst 7/8 vehicles is a clear improvement on 5 vehicles, it is still a downgrade from the full length 5+5 or 9 car units. 7 or 8 car IEPs could not run in multiple on most routes due to platform length limits.
My previous experience of the wonders of "flexible train lengths" together with natural cynicism, leads me to suspect that if GWR DID have 7/8 car units, that these would be used instead of full length trains, rather than as an improvement over a half length train.

A better idea would be to lengthen some 5 car units to a full 9 car. That would still give a uniform fleet of only 2 train types, but would increase total capacity.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #448 on: May 03, 2018, 10:10:32 am »

Just saw 802001 pass through Reading non-stop at around 08:55.

Looks like most of the seats had their protective covers on still.

Is this one of the 802 units due to come into service shortly?

Due to be in service in July
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #449 on: May 03, 2018, 10:12:05 am »

The late delivery of the new shorter trains should have given a bit of a margin for error and thereby increased the chances of being prepared.

Indeed.  Iíve said before that I think we would have been hopelessly underprepared had 800s, 387s and 365s all arrived as originally planned.

Quote
A better idea would be to lengthen some 5 car units to a full 9 car. That would still give a uniform fleet of only 2 train types, but would increase total capacity.

That would be a possibility, or you could extend some of the 5-Cars to 8-Cars, and extend the 9-Cars to 10-Cars, so youíd have a flexible fleet of 5, 8 and 10 car trains very much like Virgin West Coast has.

Plenty of options if needed, though we donít know whether there will be the need for anything to be done yet.  Especially if GWR continues to do its best to put people off travelling.
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To view my cab run over the new Reading Viaduct as well as a relief line cab ride at Reading just after Platforms 12-15 opened and my 'before and after' video comparison of the Cotswold Line Redoubling scheme, see: http://www.dailymotion.com/user/IndustryInsider/1
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