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Author Topic: IETs into passenger service from 16 Oct 2017 and subsequent performance issues  (Read 158058 times)
eightonedee
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« Reply #1650 on: May 23, 2019, 10:33:14 pm »

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A very good idea, but it would involve changing the seat reservation booking system. Imagine booking somebody into the quiet carriage, but who also has heavy luggage.

Seat reservation system? Quiet carriage? In a two car Turbo!
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rogerw
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« Reply #1651 on: May 24, 2019, 09:24:10 am »

I would not be surprised if seat reservations were discontinued on Cardiff Portsmouth services with the change to total turbo operation.
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« Reply #1652 on: May 24, 2019, 09:35:46 am »

I would not be surprised if seat reservations were discontinued on Cardiff Portsmouth services with the change to total turbo operation.

The stated plan is to have reservations in carriages A through C - which are being duly marked. The 2 car units with the luggage capacity are being designated D and E and not offered for reservation!!!

It would not surprise me either to see this not work very well to the extent it's withdrawn.
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« Reply #1653 on: May 27, 2019, 06:41:30 pm »

Is this a record? I travelled on the 0839 from Truro to Penzance today on a 9 car 802 and the friendly conductor said I was the only passenger and could sit anywhere!! Spoilt for choice so had a window seat with a window too. There was a fully loaded trolley service and the passenger load increased by 100% at Redruth. I thought the reservation system would be all green Leds to brighten up the interior but out of service.
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grahame
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« Reply #1654 on: May 27, 2019, 07:30:50 pm »

Is this a record?

No - but perhaps a perfect storm?   An early train on a Bank Holiday - who wants to leave Plymouth at 07:01 on a day off?    Against the main flow to work, I think?   And just 20 minutes after the sleeper (08:29 not 08:39?)

You have to look at the complete diagram / round trip - and on a typical day - to get a realistic insight.  There are surprising number of sparse trains around, but they just don't get reported like the busy ones do because ... there aren't the passengers there to report!
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« Reply #1655 on: May 28, 2019, 02:27:16 pm »

As has been explained before, the DfT’s obsession with the number of seats on the train, combined with not wanting to budge on legroom promises led to these four seats per carriage.  On all carriages I would replace them at one end with another luggage rack.  At the other end, on two of the carriages I would remove that row of seats and the next row in front.  I would then change the direction of the third row so they face the other way towards the gap created and then you have a proper buggy space that’s not in the quiet carriage .  Two tip-up seats could in theory be fitted for when no buggies are present, but make it clear buggies have priority.  Cost would be minimal for a much improved interior with only a few seats lost.

Just done my sums on this for a 5-car.  You could add a standard class wheelchair space (there are currently none) and add two buggy spaces, along with three extra luggage stacks, for a total loss of 18 seats, though 4-6 tip up seats could be fitted for a net loss of just 12-14 seats. 

Coach A - 1 standard wheelchair space with loss of 4 seats.
Coach B - 1 additional luggage stack and 1 buggy space with loss of 6 seats (2 or 3 tip up seats instead could be added).
Coach C - 1 additional luggage stack and 1 buggy space with loss of 6 seats (2 or 3 tip up seats instead could be added).
Coach D - 1 additional luggage stack with loss of 2 seats.
Coach E - Unaltered, though you could potentially remove one wheelchair space and you could gain 1 extra first class seat and one luggage stack.
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bobm
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« Reply #1656 on: May 28, 2019, 03:10:41 pm »

Is this a record?

No - but perhaps a perfect storm?   An early train on a Bank Holiday - who wants to leave Plymouth at 07:01 on a day off?    Against the main flow to work, I think?   And just 20 minutes after the sleeper (08:29 not 08:39?)

You have to look at the complete diagram / round trip - and on a typical day - to get a realistic insight.  There are surprising number of sparse trains around, but they just don't get reported like the busy ones do because ... there aren't the passengers there to report!

Might also be because the train was left out of the journey planners in error and so was added as an additional service yesterday morning on JourneyCheck.
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broadgage
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« Reply #1657 on: May 28, 2019, 03:36:21 pm »

As has been explained before, the DfT’s obsession with the number of seats on the train, combined with not wanting to budge on legroom promises led to these four seats per carriage.  On all carriages I would replace them at one end with another luggage rack.  At the other end, on two of the carriages I would remove that row of seats and the next row in front.  I would then change the direction of the third row so they face the other way towards the gap created and then you have a proper buggy space that’s not in the quiet carriage .  Two tip-up seats could in theory be fitted for when no buggies are present, but make it clear buggies have priority.  Cost would be minimal for a much improved interior with only a few seats lost.

Just done my sums on this for a 5-car.  You could add a standard class wheelchair space (there are currently none) and add two buggy spaces, along with three extra luggage stacks, for a total loss of 18 seats, though 4-6 tip up seats could be fitted for a net loss of just 12-14 seats. 

Coach A - 1 standard wheelchair space with loss of 4 seats.
Coach B - 1 additional luggage stack and 1 buggy space with loss of 6 seats (2 or 3 tip up seats instead could be added).
Coach C - 1 additional luggage stack and 1 buggy space with loss of 6 seats (2 or 3 tip up seats instead could be added).
Coach D - 1 additional luggage stack with loss of 2 seats.
Coach E - Unaltered, though you could potentially remove one wheelchair space and you could gain 1 extra first class seat and one luggage stack.

Sounds sensible to me.
The lack of a standard class wheelchair space is IMHO a significant failing of the present design.
Whilst it is probably non PC to say this, the present free upgrade to first class for a wheelchair user AND ENTOURAGE may soon become an expectation.
It would be reasonable to provide this only in standard, with first class disabled passengers being offered a refund.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
grahame
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« Reply #1658 on: May 28, 2019, 04:09:36 pm »

Might also be because the train was left out of the journey planners in error and so was added as an additional service yesterday morning on JourneyCheck.

Ah - so perhaps that also explains why it was shown twice on Real Time Trains in what looked to be the same timings ... with one copy cancelled!

Yeah ... if you remove a train from the advertised timetables, shouldn't be surprised if it's a bit quiet!
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #1659 on: May 28, 2019, 04:12:33 pm »

As has been explained before, the DfT’s obsession with the number of seats on the train, combined with not wanting to budge on legroom promises led to these four seats per carriage.  On all carriages I would replace them at one end with another luggage rack.  At the other end, on two of the carriages I would remove that row of seats and the next row in front.  I would then change the direction of the third row so they face the other way towards the gap created and then you have a proper buggy space that’s not in the quiet carriage .  Two tip-up seats could in theory be fitted for when no buggies are present, but make it clear buggies have priority.  Cost would be minimal for a much improved interior with only a few seats lost.

Just done my sums on this for a 5-car.  You could add a standard class wheelchair space (there are currently none) and add two buggy spaces, along with three extra luggage stacks, for a total loss of 18 seats, though 4-6 tip up seats could be fitted for a net loss of just 12-14 seats. 

Coach A - 1 standard wheelchair space with loss of 4 seats.
Coach B - 1 additional luggage stack and 1 buggy space with loss of 6 seats (2 or 3 tip up seats instead could be added).
Coach C - 1 additional luggage stack and 1 buggy space with loss of 6 seats (2 or 3 tip up seats instead could be added).
Coach D - 1 additional luggage stack with loss of 2 seats.
Coach E - Unaltered, though you could potentially remove one wheelchair space and you could gain 1 extra first class seat and one luggage stack.

Now, now II.  You missed out the surfboard space....... Roll Eyes
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« Reply #1660 on: May 28, 2019, 05:04:03 pm »

Whilst it is probably non PC to say this, the present free upgrade to first class for a wheelchair user AND ENTOURAGE may soon become an expectation.
It would be reasonable to provide this only in standard, with first class disabled passengers being offered a refund.

I think two spaces per 5-car train, one in Standard and one in First would be the best compromise, of course that would be four in a 10-car formation, two of each, so the same as the 9-car trains.  No need for upgrades or refunds - unless in the unlikely event more than one wheelchair bound passenger wants the same class of travel as the other on a 5-car train.
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initiation
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« Reply #1661 on: May 28, 2019, 06:33:34 pm »

Another day, another 5+5 IET down to just 5 due to staff issues meaning the rear is locked out. Also no catering.
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eightonedee
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« Reply #1662 on: May 28, 2019, 09:49:53 pm »

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You could add a standard class wheelchair space (there are currently none) and add two buggy spaces, along with three extra luggage stacks, for a total loss of 18 seats, though 4-6 tip up seats could be fitted for a net loss of just 12-14 seats. 

It surprises (no - mildly annoys) me that tip-up seats are not routinely provided in wheelchair spaces. It's particularly bad in the Turbo coaches where there are two large empty spaces where the wheelchairs go (in 166s formerly occupied by 4 across seating with tables - pick of the standard class seats) that are crying out for temporary seats when not in use. ORR's (or whoever's) obsession with seat numbers seems to go AWOL when there are some simple steps that could provide many passengers a few extra seats at busy times. At least the Electrostars get it right - anyone know what they'll do on 769s?
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« Reply #1663 on: May 31, 2019, 11:51:30 am »

Interesting point made by a GWR manager:

First Virgin Trains Pendolino entered service 23rd July 2002.  Time taken to remove last loco hauled service to complete the fleet renewal was 4 years, 4 months and 29 days (not including the Pretendolino set).

First GWR IET entered service on 16th October 2017.  Last HST ran 1 year 7 months and 2 days later.

Interesting comparison. Though is it a fair one?
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broadgage
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« Reply #1664 on: May 31, 2019, 12:27:02 pm »

IMHO, the real issue is NOT the speed or otherwise with which IETs replaced HSTs.
The issue is the degree of downgrading in facilities.

Whether the downgrade is spread over 18 months or over 4 years, the new DMUs are generally considered to be a backward step if compared to proper inter-city trains.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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