Lack of Welsh signage on IET fleet

[whole diary]

[TaplowGreen]

Since the (at least around these parts of the WR area) is Gas Distributor is Wales and West Utilities (the clue is in the name) it is not unreasonable that gangs around Bristol might work both sides of the border. 

Similarly Western Power Distribution, which is the Electricity distribution network operator in Bristol and further West also covers South Wales. 

Now if you saw a Wessex Water or Bristol Water sign in Welsh that would be a surprise. 

Not unreasonable that they should work either side of the Hafren, but ludicrous to put up Welsh-first warning signs in Bristol. For the record, the top ten languages spoken in Bristol are, in order: English, Polish, Somali, Chinese (all variants), Urdu, French, Spanish, Punjabi, Arabic, Bengali.

I suspect there are more speakers of some of those languages in Cardiff than Welsh speakers!

[ellendune]

I suspect there are more speakers of some of those languages in Cardiff than Welsh speakers!

If you had asked the question in the 1970's I am sure you would have been correct even if you compared it to the use other languages now.  However, I think you would be surprised at how much Welsh is spoken in Cardiff.  3 out of the 18 state secondary schools in Cardiff are Welsh Medium Schools. 

[TonyK]

3 out of the 18 state secondary schools in Cardiff are Welsh Medium Schools. 

"Oes yna unrhyw un yno? Cnoc unwaith ar gyfer ie..."

[Red Squirrel]

According to official stats, just over 11% of people in Cardiff can speak Welsh. How many of these have Welsh as their first language doesn't appear to be recorded.

[John R]

Less than a handful I would suggest. Bear in mind that the largest proportion of those who say they can speak the language are in school or recently left school. Given the language is compulsory that is hardly surprising. How many bother to keep the language going is another matter, but it helps increase the figures and makes the language appear more meaningful than is actually the case.

[ellendune]

Yes Cardiff is not highest proportion of Welsh speakers in Wales. But Welsh medium schools are an indication of a number of young people who choose Welsh as their first language. There is of course more than one Welsh language television production company based in Cardiff. 

On a practical point if utility companies in Wales have to have two different sets of signs one with English first and the other with Welsh first or if gangs working across the border have to have bi-lingual and English only signs that will add to costs and may even put the van over the legal weight.

Perhaps the people of Bristol would prefer to wait longer for utility repairs in order that the gang can go back to the depot to change the signs. 

[Red Squirrel]

Perhaps the people of Bristol would prefer to wait longer for utility repairs in order that the gang can go back to the depot to change the signs. 

Given how the politics of identity work, that may very well be the case.

Oh, Virtute et Industrial, Cardiff's now much nearer
They'm gonna print that Evening Post in Welsh to make things clearer

Source: Adge Cutler

[John R]

But Welsh medium schools are an indication of a number of young people who choose Welsh as their first language. There is of course more than one Welsh language television production company based in Cardiff. 

They are actually chosen by the parents (not the children) typically middle class, who believe their children will get a better primary education by choosing a Welsh language medium school. Most revert to English for the next stage, as the confidence doesn't extend to getting a decent education in the exams that matter.

[Western Pathfinder]

Not forgetting Brizzle !

[ellendune]

But Welsh medium schools are an indication of a number of young people who choose Welsh as their first language. There is of course more than one Welsh language television production company based in Cardiff. 

They are actually chosen by the parents (not the children) typically middle class, who believe their children will get a better primary education by choosing a Welsh language medium school. Most revert to English for the next stage, as the confidence doesn't extend to getting a decent education in the exams that matter.

Umm I was talking about Welsh Medium secondary schools.  (see below)

If you had asked the question in the 1970's I am sure you would have been correct even if you compared it to the use other languages now.  However, I think you would be surprised at how much Welsh is spoken in Cardiff.  3 out of the 18 state secondary schools in Cardiff are Welsh Medium Schools. 

[Red Squirrel]

Did Psychic Sally go to a Welsh Medium School?

[Bmblbzzz]

Since the (at least around these parts of the WR area) is Gas Distributor is Wales and West Utilities (the clue is in the name) it is not unreasonable that gangs around Bristol might work both sides of the border. 

Similarly Western Power Distribution, which is the Electricity distribution network operator in Bristol and further West also covers South Wales. 

Now if you saw a Wessex Water or Bristol Water sign in Welsh that would be a surprise. 

Not unreasonable that they should work either side of the Hafren, but ludicrous to put up Welsh-first warning signs in Bristol. For the record, the top ten languages spoken in Bristol are, in order: English, Polish, Somali, Chinese (all variants), Urdu, French, Spanish, Punjabi, Arabic, Bengali.

But there's no legal requirement to put signs in any of those languages (other than English), though I have seen signs in Somali when Junction 3 development was under construction. The utilities are legally required to have signs in Welsh and English when they're in Wales and there's no legal bar on using them in other parts of the UK^▸ (United Kingdom), so if the bilingual signs happen to be at the top of the pile (assuming it's even worth their while having others), that's what they use. In practice the signs don't always accurately relate to what's going on, so it's a moot point whether any languages are reasonable.

[froome]

The acknowledgement of the Welsh language across rail services is very patchy and distinctly odd in the way it is distributed (or at least that is how it comes across to a rail user in Wales).

For instance, at Newport, which probably is the least Welsh speaking town in Wales, the screens show all services fully and separately in both Welsh and English, and all announcements are bilingual.

Whereas, on Arriva Trains services in north Wales, serving areas where Welsh is spoken by large numbers (and for some smaller stops such as those in Anglesey it will be the language spoken by most as their first language), announcements on the trains are only in English.

[Tim]

But Welsh medium schools are an indication of a number of young people who choose Welsh as their first language.

All of the three people I know who went to a Welsh medium secondary school can speak good Welsh, but none of them would regard Welsh as their first language. 

[devonexpress]

It seems very reasonable to insist that trains operating in Wales should have bilingual signage. It seems very unreasonable to suggest that any train that might operate in Wales should have bilingual signage. But if it's just a matter of configuring software based on route and location, then GWR^▸ (Great Western Railway) should consider that.

The key to this is the word reasonable; if you're not careful you end up with the utter absurdity of utility companies putting up Welsh-first warning signs in Bristol. And that's not a joke, by the way; they do!

If GWR did that, the Cornish would want their language on its IET^▸ (Intercity Express Train)'s, then people in Somerset and Bristol would want an announcer with a local accent. One standard announcer should be used across the IET sets as is being done!