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Author Topic: Comedian humiliated for using disabled space on train - BBC News 17th July 2018  (Read 2141 times)
TaplowGreen
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« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2018, 11:13:55 am »

Thank You.  Every time I try to read something like this it asks me to register.....

Thought it easier to put up a screen shot - had to do it this way as the image was too large

https://ibb.co/guB8My


…...just for the record, this has nothing to do with the link that I provided.

Interesting that GWR isn't the only operator that seems to have a problem in this respect though?
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Phantom
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« Reply #61 on: July 20, 2018, 01:07:44 pm »

Thank You.  Every time I try to read something like this it asks me to register.....

Thought it easier to put up a screen shot - had to do it this way as the image was too large

https://ibb.co/guB8My


…...just for the record, this has nothing to do with the link that I provided.

Interesting that GWR isn't the only operator that seems to have a problem in this respect though?

The further back on her timeline the more "problems" you will see
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bignosemac
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« Reply #62 on: July 20, 2018, 06:54:22 pm »

Yes indeed. It's an industry wide problem (quote marks and their hidden subtext unnecessary) that needs addressing.

A series of tweets from one disabled user, documenting their negative experiences, are an excellent record to show the wider world.

Progress is being made. The RSSB have issued guidance to TOCs stating that legal opinion is that mobility scooters used by those with protected characteristics, and that meet the 'reference dimensions', are to be treated no differently than wheelchairs.

More needs doing. But it's a start. Tanyalee's publicity of her regular problems accessing trains should be welcomed and not be dismissed as militancy.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #63 on: July 21, 2018, 08:11:26 am »

Yes indeed. It's an industry wide problem (quote marks and their hidden subtext unnecessary) that needs addressing.

A series of tweets from one disabled user, documenting their negative experiences, are an excellent record to show the wider world.

Progress is being made. The RSSB have issued guidance to TOCs stating that legal opinion is that mobility scooters used by those with protected characteristics, and that meet the 'reference dimensions', are to be treated no differently than wheelchairs.

More needs doing. But it's a start. Tanyalee's publicity of her regular problems accessing trains should be welcomed and not be dismissed as militancy.

If something positive is to come out of this, as well as greater awareness of the needs of disabled customers, let's hope it's an overall shift in the culture on the railways per se to become customer service organisations with services designed in that context - the railways are so far behind virtually every other sector in this respect that there are plenty of opportunities which could be taken quickly, and relatively inexpensively to start that journey...…………..eliminating the type of experience which Tanyalee had to endure being one perfect example.
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a-driver
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« Reply #64 on: July 21, 2018, 02:18:51 pm »

I see she has had more trouble with another TOC now.  From her Twitter feed it looks as if she’s was left on a train by LNER and overcarried
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bignosemac
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« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2018, 03:14:14 pm »

Why am I not surprised? The problem is endemic. Nothing less than putting TOCs in front of judges, and/or a Parliamentary Select Committee, will do.

A few prosecutions and some hefty fines and compensations may just concentrate minds. This treatment of the disabled by public transport operators is a national shame. It is 2018. The disabled have fought long and hard for equality. Yet they are still shat on day in, day out when they dare to interact with society, and just try to do what all the rest of us take for granted.

News of her latest inexcusable treatment:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-44910639
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IndustryInsider
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« Reply #66 on: July 21, 2018, 04:17:14 pm »

Instructions/clarification have been issued to all front line colleagues staff...

'It is always difficult when making decisions in the moment when balancing the needs of two passengers.However, in order to help colleagues who may find themselves in this situation, we would like to make our position on this quite clear. When required, passengers with reduced mobility using a mobility scooter or wheelchair have priority to use the designated on-train wheelchair spaces over all other passengers regardless of whether others have reserved the place.

This includes passengers using it to store their luggage, bicycles, pushchairs or any other accompanied articles. When storage space is limited then passengers should be politely requested to fold down the pushchair and vacate the designated space. 

GWR has an obligation to ensure, that when required, the wheelchair space on a train is made available for wheelchair or mobility scooter users. We should politely explain this to our customers and ask them to move their luggage, bicycles, pushchairs or any other accompanied articles.  

Please can I ask for your help to work together to make sure we all comply with this position for the comfort and safety of all our passengers.'

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plymothian
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« Reply #67 on: July 21, 2018, 04:32:56 pm »

Which goes against the policy of mobility scooters are to be stowed as luggage (where in the accessible space or not), now why if GWR had previously revised it's policy was it not communicated with front line staff or changed on their website?
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chuffed
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« Reply #68 on: July 21, 2018, 04:35:47 pm »

This may seem blindingly obvious, but surely the sheer fact it is called and designated 'the wheelchair space' shows that the wheelchair user takes precedence over everything else.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #69 on: July 21, 2018, 04:55:59 pm »

It is becoming a little tiresome to keep quoting the RSSB guidance for TOCs, issued after legal clarification from the ORR and DfT:

Quote
The Department for Transport (DfT) and Office of Rail and Road (ORR) have indicated that there is no clear basis for differentiating between wheelchair and mobility scooter devices, provided they meet the ‘reference wheelchair’ specification (Length: 1200mm, Width: 700mm, Height: 1350mm, Laden weight: 300kg, and have similar manoeuvrability.

(Tanyalee Davis' scooter complies with those dimensions and manoeuvrability requirements)

And:

Quote

The Equality Act (2010) legislation was found to be unclear on whether mobility scooters have the same rights as wheelchair users in terms of the use of designated wheelchair spaces on-board trains in Great Britain. Clarifications, in response to project queries, have led to the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) and Department for Transport (DfT) interpreting the legislation to mean that both aids can reasonably be interpreted to be ‘wheelchairs’.


Seems pretty unequivocal and a reasonable interpretation of the legislation. I'd like to think the judiciary would also agree. "Your honour, Ms Davis' mobility aid has wheels and a chair..."

Users of mobility aids that comply with the reference dimensions take precedence over everyone else when occupying spaces set aside for the disabled. If the aid complies and the person using it has protected characteristics that's the end of debate. No moving them for prams and no on the hoof assessing of who is the 'most' disabled. Unreserved then it's first disabled come first disabled served.


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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #70 on: July 21, 2018, 05:31:14 pm »

Instructions/clarification have been issued to all front line colleagues staff...

'It is always difficult when making decisions in the moment when balancing the needs of two passengers.However, in order to help colleagues who may find themselves in this situation, we would like to make our position on this quite clear. When required, passengers with reduced mobility using a mobility scooter or wheelchair have priority to use the designated on-train wheelchair spaces over all other passengers regardless of whether others have reserved the place.

This includes passengers using it to store their luggage, bicycles, pushchairs or any other accompanied articles. When storage space is limited then passengers should be politely requested to fold down the pushchair and vacate the designated space. 

GWR has an obligation to ensure, that when required, the wheelchair space on a train is made available for wheelchair or mobility scooter users. We should politely explain this to our customers and ask them to move their luggage, bicycles, pushchairs or any other accompanied articles.  

Please can I ask for your help to work together to make sure we all comply with this position for the comfort and safety of all our passengers.'



if you could also use some basic commonsense, empathy and common courtesy when using the PA, rather than humiliating disabled customers in a totally unprofessional and threatening way, it would also be appreciated
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #71 on: July 21, 2018, 05:53:29 pm »

Ahem.  When I first read your post TG I thought you were addressing your comment to the poster, II.  Perhaps a slight rearranging of your post is required?
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #72 on: July 21, 2018, 06:38:47 pm »

'...When required, passengers with reduced mobility using a mobility scooter or wheelchair have priority to use the designated on-train wheelchair spaces over all other passengers regardless of whether others have reserved the place.'

When GWR state 'have reserved', above, do they actually mean 'are already using'? GWR are surely not stupid enough to allow reservation of the 'companion' seat(s), and thus by implication the wheelchair space, by anyone other than a disabled traveller?

NB. Possible pedantry alert. 
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bignosemac
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« Reply #73 on: July 21, 2018, 07:16:02 pm »

I wondered on that point too B_B.

I suspect it is just poor wording. That does though raise a little cause for concern. GWR should be issuing clear and unambiguous guidance to its staff.

I don't think the disabled spaces and accompanying seat can be  reserved by just anyone. It has to be done either through Passenger Assistance, or in person at a staffed station.

And I don't think the intention of this reminder guidance is to suggest that one disabled person, who has reserved the space, can be turfed out by another.
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a-driver
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« Reply #74 on: July 21, 2018, 10:42:11 pm »

Why am I not surprised? The problem is endemic. Nothing less than putting TOCs in front of judges, and/or a Parliamentary Select Committee, will do.

A few prosecutions and some hefty fines and compensations may just concentrate minds. This treatment of the disabled by public transport operators is a national shame. It is 2018. The disabled have fought long and hard for equality. Yet they are still shat on day in, day out when they dare to interact with society, and just try to do what all the rest of us take for granted.

News of her latest inexcusable treatment:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-norfolk-44910639

But will it.  We are going backwards when it comes to accessibility on the railway. Where services are DOO, wheelchair users joining or alighting a train at an unstaffed station has to book at least 24 hours in advance.

Northern Rail and the Tyne & Wear Metro, as far as I know, still have a ban on powered mobility scooters

Train operators are not required to carry mobility scooters.

Not once did Tanyalee Davis explain to everyone that the mother of the baby had a broken arm, nor did she tell everyone that she suggested the pram should be folded and the newborn laid on a table.
 
« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 12:00:21 am by a-driver » Logged
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