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Author Topic: Comedian humiliated for using disabled space on train - BBC News 17th July 2018  (Read 2673 times)
martyjon
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« Reply #75 on: July 22, 2018, 06:54:44 am »

Take a look at airlines on disabled travel, some airlines do not even allow blind passengers to travel ALONE. There is a programme on BBC R4 called In Touch and the tales heard on there are amazing in the derogatory sense. A blind person quite able to walk having lost their sight in an accident of as a result of illness being forced to wait until last to disembark an aircraft and then forced into making use of a wheelchair when they were quite happily guided onto the aircraft at the departing airport by the ground handling staff which may even be the same company at both airports.
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Bob_Blakey
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« Reply #76 on: July 22, 2018, 09:12:21 am »

...Not once did Tanyalee Davis explain to everyone that the mother of the baby had a broken arm...

I would seriously question the thought processes of anybody who considered it appropriate to try and use public transport under such circumstances.
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grahame
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« Reply #77 on: July 22, 2018, 09:59:27 am »

... the mother of the baby had a broken arm...

I would seriously question the thought processes of anybody who considered it appropriate to try and use public transport under such circumstances.

Indeed, but there are times that "needs must". We do not know of the personal circumstances, but I can envisage situations where she had no realistic alternative; I doubt it was a journey embarked upon for leisure / pleasure.
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #78 on: July 22, 2018, 10:13:13 am »

... the mother of the baby had a broken arm...

I would seriously question the thought processes of anybody who considered it appropriate to try and use public transport under such circumstances.

Indeed, but there are times that "needs must". We do not know of the personal circumstances, but I can envisage situations where she had no realistic alternative; I doubt it was a journey embarked upon for leisure / pleasure.

Absolutely, and I'm struggling to see the relevance in the context of events.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #79 on: July 22, 2018, 06:39:28 pm »

Train operators are not required to carry mobility scooters.

Not once did Tanyalee Davis explain to everyone that the mother of the baby had a broken arm, nor did she tell everyone that she suggested the pram should be folded and the newborn laid on a table.

We know the mum had an arm injury because Tanyalee Davis mentioned it. Tanyalee has also said in interviews that the mum was not wearing a cast, and merely had bandaging on her wrist. Videos show that Mum was able to help the TM lift her buggy with one hand, while holding baby in the other. Tanyalee Davies mentioned in interviews that she suggested to mum that baby could be transferred to the car seat that mum was also travelling with and that car seat could be placed on the table. Exactly as another traveller was doing.


Despite all this, there are still some, often railway employees, who continue to look for an angle to cast doubt on Tanyalee Davis story and attempt to excuse the train managers actions. Fortunately they are odds with GWR senior management. I doubt any rail employee defending the Train Manager would dare do so publicly.

As for train operators not being required to carry mobility scooters, the RSSB guidance suggests otherwise. Provided they meet 'reference dimensions' and the user has protected characteristics as set out in the Equality Act 2010, then they should be carried.

Regardless of interpretation and grey areas, luggage, prams, baby seats, stuffed donkeys, kitchen sinks... should never be given priority over a disabled person for access to a space set aside for the disabled. And once a disabled person has been settled into the disabled space with assistance from rail staff, and is patently not causing an obstruction or other health and safety concern, then company policy on scooters moot. A reasonable adjustment has been made.

« Last Edit: July 22, 2018, 06:53:15 pm by bignosemac » Logged

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a-driver
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« Reply #80 on: July 22, 2018, 10:23:14 pm »


We know the mum had an arm injury because Tanyalee Davis mentioned it. Tanyalee has also said in interviews that the mum was not wearing a cast, and merely had bandaging on her wrist. Videos show that Mum was able to help the TM lift her buggy with one hand, while holding baby in the other. Tanyalee Davies mentioned in interviews that she suggested to mum that baby could be transferred to the car seat that mum was also travelling with and that car seat could be placed on the table. Exactly as another traveller was doing.

Babies shouldn’t be left in a car seat for more than 30 minutes.

Quote
Despite all this, there are still some, often railway employees, who continue to look for an angle to cast doubt on Tanyalee Davis story and attempt to excuse the train managers actions. Fortunately they are odds with GWR senior management. I doubt any rail employee defending the Train Manager would dare do so publicly.

Until the full facts are known then people are entitled to cast doubt on her story.  Especially when she tweets images such as this just leads people to think she’s after the publicity.  https://twitter.com/TanyaleeDavis/status/1021123416936669185
The incident on LNER leads people to think she’s out to create a problem.

Quote
As for train operators not being required to carry mobility scooters, the RSSB guidance suggests otherwise. Provided they meet 'reference dimensions' and the user has protected characteristics as set out in the Equality Act 2010, then they should be carried.

None of the regulations explicitly require rail companies to carry passengers travelling on a ‘mobility scooter’ or other ‘mobility aid’

Quote
Regardless of interpretation and grey areas, luggage, prams, baby seats, stuffed donkeys, kitchen sinks... should never be given priority over a disabled person for access to a space set aside for the disabled. And once a disabled person has been settled into the disabled space with assistance from rail staff, and is patently not causing an obstruction or other health and safety concern, then company policy on scooters moot. A reasonable adjustment has been made.

My Nan has a mobility scooter but she’s not disabled. Does that mean she is entitled to occupy a disabled space on public transport?  What about someone who uses a mobility scooter because they are obese?  If they are occupying a disabled space and someone wants to board who is unable to walk at all, what should happen?
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TaplowGreen
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« Reply #81 on: July 23, 2018, 06:07:25 am »

A cynic is a man who, when he smells flowers, looks around for a coffin.

HL Mencken.
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bignosemac
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« Reply #82 on: July 23, 2018, 07:34:18 am »

Until the full facts are known then people are entitled to cast doubt on her story.  Especially when she tweets images such as this just leads people to think she’s after the publicity.  https://twitter.com/TanyaleeDavis/status/1021123416936669185
The incident on LNER leads people to think she’s out to create a problem.

What's wrong with the picture tweeted. One that offers praise to a TOC and its staff. After her horrible experiences in recent days I think it is very magnanimous of her to detail a good experience. And yes, people are entitled to cast doubt. It's helpful when they do if they can provide credible evidence of an alternative narrative. No need to provide it here. Give it to GWRs senior managers. They can then retract their statements, and issue a public apology to the TM instead. If they won't, then give the credible evidence to the press.

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Babies shouldn't be left in car seats for more than 30 minutes.

Yes, following a pilot study. Further studies needed. Also take a look at the car seat used in the study. Huge compared to the <5 month old infant sat in it. Also, the study was on car seats in a simulated car journey, where the upright angle a forward facing child sleeps at could cause problems if sleeping for long periods. The type of car seat used by mum on Tanyalee Davis train is not known, but it would be reasonable to believe it was one with a carry handle, part of a combined travel system with the pram. These are designed so that the sleeping angle outside a car is lower. Besides which, car seat for infants up to 15 months (in this case video evidence and Tanyalee Davis' interviews point to a babe in arms) must be rear facing, where the sleeping angle is much lower. Travelling alone with a separate pram and a forward facing car seat seems highly unlikely. Even if she was, no one is forcing mum to keep her child in the car seat for the entire journey.

The study: https://fn.bmj.com/content/early/2016/09/30/archdischild-2016-310730
The NHS response: https://www.nhs.uk/news/pregnancy-and-child/warning-over-babies-sleeping-in-car-seats/

Quote
None of the regulations explicitly require rail companies to carry passengers travelling on a ‘mobility scooter’ or other ‘mobility aid’

The RSSB, ORR and DfT have all said that for the purposes of the legislation a scooter is covered by said legislation if it meets 'reference dimensions' and is used by a person with protected characteristics.

Quote
My Nan has a mobility scooter but she’s not disabled. Does that mean she is entitled to occupy a disabled space on public transport?  What about someone who uses a mobility scooter because they are obese?  If they are occupying a disabled space and someone wants to board who is unable to walk at all, what should happen?

May I suggest you read the Equality Act 2010. Particularly the bit about 'protected characteristics'.
« Last Edit: July 23, 2018, 07:47:10 am by bignosemac » Logged

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martyjon
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« Reply #83 on: July 23, 2018, 07:40:18 am »

A disabled person who is a well known "celebrity" in the area that I reside has met Tanyalee on a number of occasions and said she is great. At one function another "comedian" like Tanyalee visited the ladies but was "an absolute flop" and as it was the interval the punters were also visiting the ladies and were remarking about the "dead loss" of the persons act, but other females in the loo were frantically making signs pointing to the closet door this person was using when it opened and silence erupted to the extent that you could hear a pin drop, a rare event in a crowd of women.

Anyway to complete this post the disabled person known to me told me of an encounter she had with Wessex Trains. She had booked assistance from Yate to Southampton. Her booked service from Yate was cancelled but Gloucester Station phoned her to advise her of this and revised arrangements for her complete journey. When the next service arrived, she said that the conductor/guard never appeared until the train was ready to depart when he stepped out onto the platform and saw her waiting for the ramp so he walked along the platform to her, grunted about she should have booked assistance to which she replied that she had and had even had a phone call from Gloucester station advising her of the revised arrangements. "Nobody has told me", said the guard. Arriving at TM, lovely Wayne, the one who was honoured by the Queen, was waiting with the ramp and escorted her to the Portsmouth train which was held specially for her and she said that she heard the guard on her train from Yate had not read his special instructions for her joining at Yate for the first part of her journey. 
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a-driver
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« Reply #84 on: July 23, 2018, 11:06:02 am »

Until the full facts are known then people are entitled to cast doubt on her story.  Especially when she tweets images such as this just leads people to think she’s after the publicity.  https://twitter.com/TanyaleeDavis/status/1021123416936669185
The incident on LNER leads people to think she’s out to create a problem.

What's wrong with the picture tweeted. One that offers praise to a TOC and its staff. After her horrible experiences in recent days I think it is very magnanimous of her to detail a good experience. And yes, people are entitled to cast doubt. It's helpful when they do if they can provide credible evidence of an alternative narrative. No need to provide it here. Give it to GWRs senior managers. They can then retract their statements, and issue a public apology to the TM instead. If they won't, then give the credible evidence to the press.

What’s wrong with the picture.  In my personal opinion, and it’s irellevant who the individual is or the fact it’s on a train,  but should they be entitled to use the wheelchair space?  If someone who is confined to a wheelchair wanted to board and you point at a vacated mobility scooter the chances are it will cause issues. If I was a guard I’d request the mobility scooter is moved.  I wouldn’t leave a wheelchair user on the platform, nor would I stick them in a vestibule whilst an empty mobility scooter is occupying the space?   If you can’t park luggage, cycles, parks in the space so you shouldn’t be allowed to park and leave a mobility scooter their.  Someone who parks a mobility scooter in a disabled space, then leaves it and takes a seat elsewhere is effectively taking up two seats! 

The problem there are people using mobility scooters for no other reason other than laziness.  When a train pulls in to a platform the guard simply has to take them as a disabled passenger. 
On some train services, the only wheelchair accessible area is in First Class.  There’s nothing stopping me buying a mobility scooter, turning up at a station and getting First Class treatment and a guaranteed space on the train.   
Mobility scooters should only be available to those that actually need them. Better regulation is needed. 
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devonexpress
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« Reply #85 on: July 26, 2018, 12:27:37 am »

With respect to her, it's been mentioned she a strong disability campaigner, from the video I watched, the TM made a decision to ask her to vacate the spot, he wouldn't have done this without a good reason. And the abuse he got from her partner was disgusting, he tried talking to them in a calm and rational manager, but the didn't want to know.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was just for publicity, if shes OK to sit in a first class seat, then why wasn't the buggy placed in the storage compartment of the power car?  Easy solution and no fuss
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bignosemac
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« Reply #86 on: July 26, 2018, 06:40:10 am »

My god. We're still defending the TM.  Shocked

Good reason? Which is what exactly? Abuse? One use of "bull****" to describe the situation created by the TM. Not 'hurled', but borne of frustration at the treatment a disabled person was receiving.

She was boarded and settled by staff at Plymouth. A disabled person and her mobility aid into a disabled space. End of. Or should have been until the TM decided to move a disabled person and their mobility aid from a disabled space in preference of a mother with pram. Someone not entitled to use the space at all.

GWR senior managers have apologised to Tanyalee Davis and said what occurred should never have happened. They've seen the same footage before doing so. They've met Tanyalee Davis to apologise in person, and agreed to be filmed by news crew. Do you really think they'd do all that if there was one iota of doubt about the TMs reasons for moving her?

Do you think they're wrong to be 'collectively horrified' by the actions of a TM who threatened a disabled person with arrest and ejection and humiliated her over the public address? Threats made merely because said disabled person and her partner were robustly and forthrightly defending a legal right to occupy a disabled space. L

"Oh look, her comes the Train Manager. Quick hubby, get your camera out so we can create some free publicity."

How stupid does that sound? They started filming AFTER the TM compelled them to move. No rational person put into the situation Tanyalee Davis was put in is doing anything other than responding to that situation. They've been put into it. They haven't instigated it with an ulterior motive to boost their public profile. Tanyalee Davis was upset and humiliated. Crocodile tears where they? Of course they damn well weren't.

Go ahead. Keep defending the indefensible. I am amazed that there are still some who suggest there are justifiable reasons for the TMs actions. Well come on then, let's hear them. Let's understand why GWR were wrong to defend the passenger and not their staff member.  Angry Angry Angry
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