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  • Bristol transport strategy .: November 02, 2018
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Author Topic: Bristol Transport Strategy Consultation / Launch Event 26/09/2018.  (Read 3232 times)
TonyK
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« Reply #30 on: May 12, 2019, 11:58:54 pm »

It's all a little back to front, isn't it? Most big cities have a decent transport system that they then extend to the airport. The Bristol solution is to start with the airport, then extend it to the city, something that could charitably been called "radical". The Mayor speaks some rare sense here:

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The model of the airport is not just about adding flights to the UKís total. The airportís plan is to ease Heathrow by reducing the number of car journeys from the South West and Wales to Heathrow and Gatwick. Thatís not insignificant."

The Mayor recognises that people like me are going to travel to places where the train won't get you before your annual leave runs out. I can't see how my carbon (dioxide) footprint would be improved by my having to drive past Bristol Airport, then carry on for a couple of hours or more to Heathrow or Gatwick, only to come back in the same general direction, but at 38,000 feet, most of a day later. I am more than happy to catch the bus from Cullompton to Bristol airport, and cut the congestion. I could understand the outcry if the airport were being expanded to provide additional internal flights rather than easing the load on the big hubs, but it isn't, and I can't as yet catch a train from Temple Meads to Tenerife, Menorca, or Cyprus, my last three destinations flying from Bristol. So I'm content for the airport to expand within moderation, particularly if the emphasis is on using fuel efficient aircraft like the A320 NEO and, if it can be made safe, the Boeing 737-800 MAX.

And if a by-product of that is a spanky new light rail system, kick-started by those nice people at the Ontario Teachers' Pension Plan who own the airport, then I shan't grumble. Overall, it would probably cut the city's emissions more than if the airport were not expanded.

Incidentally, whilst trying to find Mayor Marvin in his favoured haunt of Malaysia last month, I rode on the excellent (and very cheap) Kuala Lumpur underground railway. He could learn much.
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grahame
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« Reply #31 on: May 13, 2019, 05:44:12 am »

I can't see how my carbon (dioxide) footprint would be improved by my having to drive past Bristol Airport, then carry on for a couple of hours or more to Heathrow or Gatwick, only to come back in the same general direction, but at 38,000 feet, most of a day later.

I ... when working at various places in the USA and Canada, and a sprinkling of other obscure places such as Slovenia, used to wonder that.  Ah - more about my personal time than my CO2 at the time, I admit.  I concluded that although my personal foot print was worse than it would be with a direct flight from a nearby airport, there are many worldwide destinations which did not justify flights from more than one or two UK airports, and adding more flights would mean lower loadings, more cost, more CO2 emission as there would overall be far more air traffic.     Common destinations for sure, but is there an efficient market for Bristol to Mexico City,  Cardiff to Lubljana, or Exeter to Vancouver?

Your solution ... perhaps is to catch the train from Bristol Temple Meads (or Tiverton or even Cullompton) direct to the airport - even though it might not be the closest airport.  A darned sight greener than (say) flying from Exeter to Schipol, then Schipol to Vancouver.
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TonyK
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« Reply #32 on: May 16, 2019, 04:15:06 pm »

Your solution ... perhaps is to catch the train from Bristol Temple Meads (or Tiverton or even Cullompton) direct to the airport - even though it might not be the closest airport.  A darned sight greener than (say) flying from Exeter to Schipol, then Schipol to Vancouver.

As it happens, I caught Megabus from Tiverton Parkway to Heathrow (via Bristol) because of the price difference compared to train. That was on the day of the very sad happenings just outside of Exeter, which meant that trains were badly affected. I then flew to Abu Dhabi, took a bus to Dubai, joined a cruise ship calling at many places before flying back from Tokyo, so I don't think of myself as an eco-warrior, but I did travel by rail to Lincolnshire the other day, rather than drive.

I once flew from Bristol to Los Angeles via Schiphol, which seemed a good idea until someone backed a truck into the rear of the DC10 we were flying to America from Holland. The resulting 4 hour delay meant that I arrived at my hotel in LA at 7.30, but not sure which 7.30 it was.
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« Reply #33 on: May 18, 2019, 10:38:40 am »

The reality is that for many people like myself working as part of international teams, whilst tools like Skype and teleconferencing are great, it's massively more productive to work face to face and builds much stronger relationships. So business travel is not going to go away, and if the UK makes it prohibitively expensive to fly, the likes of me will simply get relocated elsewhere in Europe and the UK divisions we work for will end up being sidelined.

Bristol is great to fly from - it's one of the most efficient airports in Europe in my experience, but if I'm going for work, a schedule with less than a flight a day is a bit of a risk if anything goes wrong, so I'll often end up going to Heathrow, which to be honest is quicker to drive to, as that also generally works out faster (and cheaper) than going via Schipol. Direct trains from the west, or at the least a quick transfer at Reading or the new Old Oak Common station would significantly change the balance in favour of rail for business travellers. So the reality is that if you want to improve Bristol's economy and cut down on driving, you still need a fast, direct (or almost) rail connection to Heathrow.

Finally, a modern plane full up with passengers is actually pretty fuel efficient compared with single car drivers (although it's not great for the upper atmosphere), so until you have high-speed rail (which itself is pretty energy intensive to build and operate), it's not neccessarily the worst choice for longer domestic journeys.
 
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« Reply #34 on: May 18, 2019, 12:03:07 pm »

Just imagine, though, if you could get on a train at Temple Meads, Parkway or Cardiff and connect directly into the European High-Speed network? Paris in 4hr? Maybe a sleeper to Berlin?

It is entirely within the gift of governments to make this possible and affordable, and if the phrase 'climate emergency' is to be anything but empty words then they really, really should do so.
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« Reply #35 on: May 18, 2019, 12:47:58 pm »

Just imagine, though, if you could get on a train at Temple Meads, Parkway or Cardiff and connect directly into the European High-Speed network? Paris in 4hr? Maybe a sleeper to Berlin?

It is entirely within the gift of governments to make this possible and affordable, and if the phrase 'climate emergency' is to be anything but empty words then they really, really should do so.

I have found that I can match travel time for Paris, Brussels, Rotterdam and Bonn by train compared to flying. On one memorable occasion I beat flying by well over 12 hours (even though my train was delayed) as due to snow my colleague's flight was cancelled!

If we can get rid of the need to change trains at Brussels then High Speed rail wins hands down for these near Europe journeys. 
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TonyK
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« Reply #36 on: May 18, 2019, 03:43:02 pm »

Just imagine, though, if you could get on a train at Temple Meads, Parkway or Cardiff and connect directly into the European High-Speed network? Paris in 4hr? Maybe a sleeper to Berlin?

It is entirely within the gift of governments to make this possible and affordable, and if the phrase 'climate emergency' is to be anything but empty words then they really, really should do so.

I have found that I can match travel time for Paris, Brussels, Rotterdam and Bonn by train compared to flying. On one memorable occasion I beat flying by well over 12 hours (even though my train was delayed) as due to snow my colleague's flight was cancelled!

If we can get rid of the need to change trains at Brussels then High Speed rail wins hands down for these near Europe journeys. 

I'm all for this, but can see the difficulties. A charter train all the way to Barcelona, Venice or wherever might be popular now and then, but if it started from Plymouth, there would soon be calls for it to stop at Parson and Bedminster on the way/. It won't be easy getting a full train all the way. There were, once, plans to run trains from Manchester, Birmingham and elsewhere, even Plymouth IIRC, right the way through the Channel Tunnel to Paris. I don't think it ever happened. They do it differently abroad. I once caught a train from Verona to Venice Santa Lucia, which is an excellent way to arrive. We pulled in between a Eurostar and the Orient Express. It was pre-digital days - one day I shall finish scanning all the random pictures I have.
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« Reply #37 on: May 18, 2019, 05:01:55 pm »

I have happy memories of catching a train from Hoek van Holland to Berlin Zoologischer Garten, in 1989. The train was a fascinating mix of Dutch, Scandiwegian, East and West German and Russian carriages, the latter complete with provodnik in the vestibule who would top up your jamjar of black tea leaves with boiling water from the samovar. Them were the days...
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« Reply #38 on: May 18, 2019, 05:30:33 pm »

I have happy memories of catching a train from Hoek van Holland to Berlin Zoologischer Garten, in 1989. The train was a fascinating mix of Dutch, Scandiwegian, East and West German and Russian carriages, the latter complete with provodnik in the vestibule who would top up your jamjar of black tea leaves with boiling water from the samovar. Them were the days...


Similarly, the Harwich - Hoek route is a fond memory for me but with rail travel to and from Hamburg on the jumble of coachs and traction that constituted the Holland - Scandinavian Express through the 60s and early 70s.
Now, sadly, no more but it was a big childhood railway journey/adventure for me and little bro.
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« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2019, 05:56:29 pm »

It was pre-digital days - one day I shall finish scanning all the random pictures I have.

Please do  Grin
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« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2019, 06:33:09 pm »

Anyone got a clear view on where we should split this topic? I mean it's an interesting discussion and all that, but it has rather moved on from the BTS Consultation...
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« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2019, 07:21:30 pm »

Anyone got a clear view on where we should split this topic? I mean it's an interesting discussion and all that, but it has rather moved on from the BTS Consultation...

I suppose there could be a reason to split, but there's too much of that in politics these days. In any case, I'm not really expecting much more out of this than we got from the 1980 plan for trams. 39 years and £250 million later, three new subsidised bus routes.
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« Reply #42 on: May 18, 2019, 10:09:41 pm »

Ah, very clever... shades of Mornington Crescent; we're back on-topic after a deft reverse shunt at Lyde Green. MetroBus: The 'Change UK'  of public transport.
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« Reply #43 on: May 18, 2019, 10:25:38 pm »

Ah, very clever... shades of Mornington Crescent; we're back on-topic after a deft reverse shunt at Lyde Green. MetroBus: The 'Change UK'  of public transport.

Very well spotted! I played Bradshaw's Monolith there. Just saying.
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« Reply #44 on: May 19, 2019, 01:19:22 pm »

Gosh, the things you can learn on this forum:

Bradshaw's Monolith. Nearest tube: Archway.

Image: Pierre-Yves Beaudouin / Wikimedia Commons
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