Muller Road changes

[whole diary]

[Red Squirrel]

Hot on the tails of the A4018 proposals, here's some for Muller Road. Once again they involve prioritising buses and non-car traffic:

Summary of proposals

• Adding an extra southbound (towards the M32) lane to sections of Muller Road for buses, coaches, cyclists, taxis and motorcycles. This would free up the existing lanes for other vehicles.
• Upgrading all bus stops along Muller Road, to bring them all up to a modern standard.
• Transforming a large section of pavement alongside Muller Road by widening it to at least three metres wide and allowing use by both pedestrians and cyclists, extending and improving traffic-free routes for all users. Around seven trees would be lost as part of creating the path - we’ve reduced this loss as much as possible.
• Creating a new traffic light controlled junction where Ralph Road meets Muller Road. This is a measure requested by the planning officers working with Lidl to reduce the impact on traffic of the new supermarket.
• A new traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing near The Old Library, to replace a pedestrian island which is heavily used by schoolchildren and other pedestrians.
• A new traffic light controlled pedestrian and cyclist crossing near Tackley Road, to allow easy access between Muller Road and Tackley Road.
• Reducing delays at the Glenfrome Road junction by banning one of the right turns, potentially increasing the time the lights are green for Muller Road drivers by an hour every day.
• Making some side streets one way. This will improve safety and reduce delays along the whole of Muller Road by reducing the number of vehicles turning across traffic using Muller Road.
• Closing direct access to Springfield Avenue from Muller Road to reduce rat-running, improve safety and reduce the high accident rate at the junction with Draycott Road.

See https://bristol.citizenspace.com/growth-regeneration/muller-road-transport-improvements/ for details or to comment

[martyjon]

Hot on the tails of the A4018 proposals, here's some for Muller Road. Once again they involve prioritising buses and non-car traffic:

Summary of proposals

• Adding an extra southbound (towards the M32) lane to sections of Muller Road for buses, coaches, cyclists, taxis and motorcycles. This would free up the existing lanes for other vehicles.
• Upgrading all bus stops along Muller Road, to bring them all up to a modern standard.
• Transforming a large section of pavement alongside Muller Road by widening it to at least three metres wide and allowing use by both pedestrians and cyclists, extending and improving traffic-free routes for all users. Around seven trees would be lost as part of creating the path - we’ve reduced this loss as much as possible.
• Creating a new traffic light controlled junction where Ralph Road meets Muller Road. This is a measure requested by the planning officers working with Lidl to reduce the impact on traffic of the new supermarket.
• A new traffic light controlled pedestrian crossing near The Old Library, to replace a pedestrian island which is heavily used by schoolchildren and other pedestrians.
• A new traffic light controlled pedestrian and cyclist crossing near Tackley Road, to allow easy access between Muller Road and Tackley Road.
• Reducing delays at the Glenfrome Road junction by banning one of the right turns, potentially increasing the time the lights are green for Muller Road drivers by an hour every day.
• Making some side streets one way. This will improve safety and reduce delays along the whole of Muller Road by reducing the number of vehicles turning across traffic using Muller Road.
• Closing direct access to Springfield Avenue from Muller Road to reduce rat-running, improve safety and reduce the high accident rate at the junction with Draycott Road.

See https://bristol.citizenspace.com/growth-regeneration/muller-road-transport-improvements/ for details or to comment

Another scheme which will cost millions which could simply be solved by painting double yellow lines along both sides of the entire length of said Muller Road at a fraction of the cost of this proposal.

[Red Squirrel]

Another scheme which will cost millions which could simply be solved by painting double yellow lines along both sides of the entire length of said Muller Road at a fraction of the cost of this proposal.

Painting double yellow lines the whole length of Muller Road won't create a safe place to cross at Tackley Road, or provide access to the new Lidl supermarket, or improve the safety of the Springfield Avenue junction, or upgrade the bus stops to a modern standard, or provide traffic-free routes for cyclists, or give more green-light time for traffic on Muller Road at the Glenfrome Road junction. It would however make it a bit harder for people who live there to park.

[TonyK]

It's a bit of a Bristol scheme, isn't it? Short non-continuous stretches of bus lane and stopping some "rat running" which will actually make things more inconvenient for the residents in the roads being protected.

The traffic lights at Ralph Road make perfect sense. Getting buses moving along major roads also makes perfect sense. The Glenfrome Road change will mean a long detour around the M32 roundabout for anyone travelling from Stapleton to Horfield / Bishopston, until they work out the alternative. The shared foot / cyclepath makes sense, with reservations about the bit around Fairfield school. The  "advisory" cycle land after that seems to be the usual metre-wide route from drain to drain. Cycle paths and bus lanes are one direction only, although cyclists can use bus lanes. So the bus heading into town will be fine, but will have to come back sometime.

Something needs to be done, but it is hard to add too much capacity to a road that you can't widen. There will be complaints about every single part of the plan, some of the problem will be transferred to Ashley Down Raod, and there are bound to be changes before it happens, but the overall idea is good.

A lot of work for only two bus services max along any given stretch, though. The 17 is the only service that uses the whole length of Muller Road, twice per hour. The 70 takes anyone who wants to go from Ralph Road all the way to nearby Filton Avenue twice hourly. The only other is the 24, scorned and derided by MetroBust head office because of the ways it "pootles" along Stapleton Road on its way to Southmead Hospital, unlike the M-whatever that takes an hour and a half from Emersons Green instead of the scheduled 34 minutes. No pootling there, eh? The 24 will use the bit from the M32 roundabout to Shaldon Road, five times hourly. One would hope that this would encourage more bus services, although probably in vain.

[Bmblbzzz]

It's good to have schemes like this drawn to our attention. I rarely travel up and down Muller Road but frequently cross it, so I'm more familiar with certain stretches of it.

The shared path for walkers and cyclists, or "cycling on the pavement" as it's generally know, usually results in something a bit crap for everyone. It's bad for pedestrians because there are cyclists on the pavement, it's bad for cyclists because there are pedestrians (and dogs!) in their way, and in this case it's bad for drivers because of the narrower road and for trees and all (not just squirrels!) who live in them. A width of 3m, assuming it's half for cyclists and half for pedestrians, means two cycle lanes of 0.75m each – way too narrow, some handlebars are wider than that – and frankly I doubt if 1.5m is wide enough for pedestrians at school-leaving times. So people will walk in the cycle path and everyone will complain. It's just a cop out from making a decent cycle path.

Ralph Rd lights: will probably improve situation there but might be better to close that end of Ralph Rd to prevent a small residential street being used as a rat run. The same with the one-ways proposed, really.

And the discontinuous bus lane. Better than nothing I suppose, but barely, and only if parking restrictions are in place and enforced. And obviously does nothing for buses going up the hill.

[TonyK]

I agree on the shared pathway, although it is about the only possible solution and much safer than the road for cyclists. The ones that work best are those seldom used by pedestrians.

Ralph Road is actually a bus route, so won't be closed in any direction. Alternative routings would make matters worse. I suspect the new Lidl store directly opposite was a big factor in siting lights there, and I suspect that the company made a sizeable contribution to the cost. The residential one way streets will at least offer a way of getting home for the residents.

[Bmblbzzz]

One way streets can be useful but they're a mixed blessing. The leaflet says they're "to improve traffic flow and reduce rat running." Improved traffic flow means fewer jams but it also means more traffic overall and higher speeds. Though I do note that they propose to close the end of Springfield Road where it joins Muller Road. And there's always the possibility that you simply make rats run a different way, unless you find a way of reducing the number of rats, something which is rather absent both from this scheme and Bristol's traffic plans generally.

[TonyK]

One way streets can be useful but they're a mixed blessing. The leaflet says they're "to improve traffic flow and reduce rat running." Improved traffic flow means fewer jams but it also means more traffic overall and higher speeds. Though I do note that they propose to close the end of Springfield Road where it joins Muller Road. And there's always the possibility that you simply make rats run a different way, unless you find a way of reducing the number of rats, something which is rather absent both from this scheme and Bristol's traffic plans generally.

Closing the end of Springfield Avenue will stop traffic cutting along there between Muller Road and Downend Road. It will inconvenience a lot of the people who live in the immediate area, but they may say that they are prepared to trade that off for quieter streets, as rat-run traffic looks to Ralph Road instead. Stopping traffic turning right from Springfield Avenue into Muller Road makes sense, though. The residents of Ralph Road may be less overjoyed as traffic increases past their houses, but you can't please everybody.

[Bmblbzzz]

The "Bristol Live" says the lights at Ralph Road will be for a bus gate.

There is a bus-only junction, or ‘bus gate’ planned at the junction for buses travelling southbound along Muller Road that then need to turn right along Ralph Road. Vehicles in the other lanes will only be stopped at these traffic lights to allow a vehicle travelling through the bus gate to get to the lights.

There is also a right hand turning into a new road for the Lidl store just before the Ralph road junction travelling northbound.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/council-reveal-more-details-muller-2580751
I didn't notice that mentioned in the council's plans.

[Red Squirrel]

The "Bristol Live" says the lights at Ralph Road will be for a bus gate.

There is a bus-only junction, or ‘bus gate’ planned at the junction for buses travelling southbound along Muller Road that then need to turn right along Ralph Road. Vehicles in the other lanes will only be stopped at these traffic lights to allow a vehicle travelling through the bus gate to get to the lights.

There is also a right hand turning into a new road for the Lidl store just before the Ralph road junction travelling northbound.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/council-reveal-more-details-muller-2580751
I didn't notice that mentioned in the council's plans.

The plans in the consultation leaflet show something very different - they'd have to rejig the layout substantially to fit in a bus gate right turn. I wonder where the Bristol Post got their version of the plan?

Ralph Road is an oddity; it's like someone changed their mind about its role in about 1920. For 50m from its junction with Ashley Down Road it has the characteristics of a fairly narrow back street, and then it suddenly gets about 4m wider for the rest of its course down to Muller Road. Downend Road, a former country lane which runs parallel to it about 350m to the north-west, appears to be more of an 'official' route (it's yellow in OS^▸ (Ordnance Survey) maps, whereas Ralph Road isn't) but it's narrow and twisty and has a busy primary school. There are no easy answers!

[stuving]

The "Bristol Live" says the lights at Ralph Road will be for a bus gate.

There is a bus-only junction, or ‘bus gate’ planned at the junction for buses travelling southbound along Muller Road that then need to turn right along Ralph Road. Vehicles in the other lanes will only be stopped at these traffic lights to allow a vehicle travelling through the bus gate to get to the lights.

There is also a right hand turning into a new road for the Lidl store just before the Ralph road junction travelling northbound.

https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/council-reveal-more-details-muller-2580751
I didn't notice that mentioned in the council's plans.

The plans in the consultation leaflet show something very different - they'd have to rejig the layout substantially to fit in a bus gate right turn. I wonder where the Bristol Post got their version of the plan?

Oh yes it is in there! In the leaflet is says "There will also be advance traffic lights for buses.", but the detailed drawing shows it and calls it a bus gate.

[Red Squirrel]

Are we looking at a different leaflet? The one I linked in the OP^▸ (Original Poster / topic starter) says:

Traffic lights at Ralph Road junction:
 The Lidl store requires a full crossing with
 traffic lights, and this crossing should
 improve pedestrian safety and control
 traffic flow. There will also be advance
 traffic lights for buses.

...and the diagram, attached, shows all southbound vehicles able to turn right from Muller Road into Ralph Road.

[Red Squirrel]

Ah, I get it. There is a bus gate at the advanced stop line, but all vehicles can turn right into Ralph Road. All makes sense!

[Bmblbzzz]

I think the Post have been committing random acts of journalism. There is a bus gate but it's not directly linked to the lights, it simply allows buses to access an advanced stop line (the first advanced stop line for buses I'm aware of in Bristol, does anyone know of another? Maybe there is one on a Metrobus route?) and the lights function normally, allowing all vehicles to turn right into Ralph Road and out of Ralph Road. Whereas the Post implied the bus gate would be specifically to allow buses to turn into Ralph Road and that the lights would at that junction would have no other function (meaning vehicles would have no green phase to exit Ralph Road!).

[stuving]

I think the Post have been committing random acts of journalism. There is a bus gate but it's not directly linked to the lights, it simply allows buses to access an advanced stop line (the first advanced stop line for buses I'm aware of in Bristol, does anyone know of another? Maybe there is one on a Metrobus route?) and the lights function normally, allowing all vehicles to turn right into Ralph Road and out of Ralph Road. Whereas the Post implied the bus gate would be specifically to allow buses to turn into Ralph Road and that the lights would at that junction would have no other function (meaning vehicles would have no green phase to exit Ralph Road!).

I think the Post has been confusing - but not as badly so as you imply. Their words:

There is a bus-only junction, or ‘bus gate’ planned at the junction for buses travelling southbound along Muller Road that then need to turn right along Ralph Road. Vehicles in the other lanes will only be stopped at these traffic lights to allow a vehicle travelling through the bus gate to get to the lights.

assume you know a bus gate has traffic lights, referred to as "these traffic lights", while "the lights" are at the main junction with Ralph Road.

Calling it a "gate" is a bit confusing in itself, as it's not clear where on the road this gate is. The real function of its lights is to stop the other traffic so a bus can get over into the right-turning lane. While the bus will have lights of its own, to time its exit, they don't function to prevent it barging out into the traffic. So arguably it doesn't go through the gate, everything else does.