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Author Topic: Open Access Application - London to Cardiff (28/03/2019)  (Read 9596 times)
grahame
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« Reply #15 on: April 01, 2019, 01:29:13 pm »

I am reliably informed that the 91s are the most sluggish accelerating locos on the system how will they compete with IETs?
That's rather unfair on the Class 91s themselves ...

My reading is that the open access proposal has trains making a long non-stop from Bristol Parkway to Paddington.   And what's the best use of trains with a high top speed but poor acceleration?
Quote
So sluggish? Yes. So what do you do? Not stop much (as intended for the ones kept on the ECML),
Exactly  Grin  Grin

Bearing in mind the line from Parkway to Paddington is pretty straight most of the way .. (not like Boston to Skegness, for example) the need to recover from line speed restrictions will be limited too. Someone has thought it through.
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mjones
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« Reply #16 on: April 01, 2019, 02:04:41 pm »

...

The fly in the ointment is HEATHROW EXPRESS which probably uses up two paths for each trip (due to the turnout speeds at Stockley Junction).  You only need to watch an up HEATHROW EXPRESS being routed to the UP MAIN by the signalling ARS system and completely stuffing the UP MAIN services running on clear signals tail to nose at 125mph, back to Maidenhead.  Completely destroys the service.

...

No room for any contingency.  Perhaps the new service could use the RELIEF lines.... Roll Eyes Tongue

Perhaps it is time for HEX to move to the reliefs... That's a vast amount of capacity  being used up by a short distance service that will be duplicated,  with fewer changes, by Crossrail.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #17 on: April 01, 2019, 02:16:36 pm »

My thoughts are: Will we need HE once CROSSRAIL starts?
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Oxonhutch
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« Reply #18 on: April 01, 2019, 03:00:24 pm »

My thoughts are: Will we need HE once CROSSRAIL starts?

Needed or not, I believe its franchise runs to 2023.
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Celestial
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« Reply #19 on: April 01, 2019, 04:32:58 pm »

My thoughts are: Will we need HE once CROSSRAIL starts?

Needed or not, I believe its franchise runs to 2023.
Wasn't the agreement for it to run (I don't think it is a franchise) extended by another five years or so last year when they announced that GWR would run the service.
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SandTEngineer
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« Reply #20 on: April 01, 2019, 04:47:47 pm »

My thoughts are: Will we need HE once CROSSRAIL starts?

Needed or not, I believe its franchise runs to 2023.

Ah, but you see, CROSSRAIL (proper) may not start until then (well, the way its going at the moment, anyway) Grin

I'll put my cynics hat on and quitely leave the room (and this is not the place to discuss it anyway).
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didcotdean
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« Reply #21 on: April 01, 2019, 05:37:49 pm »

My thoughts are: Will we need HE once CROSSRAIL starts?

Needed or not, I believe its franchise runs to 2023.
Wasn't the agreement for it to run (I don't think it is a franchise) extended by another five years or so last year when they announced that GWR would run the service.

Yes - see this First Group Press Release from just over a year ago.
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Richard Fairhurst
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« Reply #22 on: April 02, 2019, 08:54:07 am »

There's lots of informed comment over on londonreconnections.com on the role of Heathrow Express post-Crossrail. As I understand it, NR would like it to move to the reliefs, but HX has a contract to operate as per now and has resisted any changes. After a year or two of full Crossrail operation I suspect the picture will be clearer.
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grahame
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« Reply #23 on: April 04, 2019, 09:16:27 pm »

From Passenger Transport

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Open access entrepreneur Ian Yeowart is planning a new London-Cardiff service that would provide the first competition to Great Western Railway since privatisation 25 years ago.

A notification to the Office of Rail and Road shows that Yeowart’s new open access company, Grand Union, is developing proposals for an hourly service running non-stop to Bristol Parkway before calling at Severn Tunnel Junction, Newport and Cardiff Central. Grand Union is aiming to start operating from December 2020 using Class 91/DVT sets due to be cascaded from the East Coast Main Line.

It is understood that running non-stop to Bristol Parkway would give Grand Union a competitive journey time against Great Western Railway’s Intercity Express trains when they start operating on the route. Features of Grand Union’s proposals that would offer new services to passengers include direct trains to London from Severn Tunnel Junction in South Wales and investment in the station to create a parkway facility. In addition, the service would fill a gap in GWR’s expansion plans by increasing extra services to Cardiff significantly.

Grand Union’s plans also include using space in the trainsets’ DVT trailers to carry light freight.

Yeowart set up Grand Union after leaving Arriva-owned Alliance Rail last year. Commenting on the prospects for his latest venture gaining approval, he said: “The regulator said he wanted more competition; he said if you pay an infrastructure cost charge it will help you pass the ‘Not Primarily Abstractive Test’; let’s see whether or not he’s right.”

Yeowart’s ventures during a 20-year career developing open access services include founding Grand, Central, which started operating London-Sunderland services on the East Coast Main Line in 2007, and Alliance Rail whose GNWR proposal has won approval to start operating London-Blackpool services on the West Coast Main Line in September.
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« Reply #24 on: June 15, 2019, 05:23:56 pm »

Report today....

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-48615464


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Red Squirrel
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« Reply #25 on: June 18, 2019, 05:39:39 pm »

Original press release:

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Grand Union submits application for new Cardiff to London rail service

The new open access rail company Grand Union Trains has officially submitted its application to operate an hourly service in both directions between Cardiff and London.

The proposed service, which would start operating late 2020, would run from Cardiff Central to Newport, Severn Tunnel Junction and Bristol Parkway, then express to London Paddington. It will also stop at Cardiff Parkway when it opens.

The new service is also expected to create around 135 new and permanent full-time jobs, most of which will be based in South Wales.

Grand Union submitted its formal application on Friday to gain access to the route’s tracks. Under track access rules, other rail operators are able to provide a service if a route is not deemed congested, and the Office of Rail and Road (ORR) approves an application. The application will now be subject to a 28 day consultation period before it is forwarded to the ORR.

[article continues...]
Source: Grand Union Trains

An article in today's Bristol Post was helpfully illustrated with a photo of Bristol Temple Meads station which is, erm, not on the route Grand Union have applied for...
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Adelante_CCT
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« Reply #26 on: June 19, 2019, 01:05:56 pm »

You missed the important part of the quote:

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Trains will operate with ..[snip].. a full buffet car on each service.


Also...

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..on-board ticket sales..
That'd be fun trying to board at Paddington, unless platform 1 is used

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bobm
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« Reply #27 on: June 19, 2019, 02:56:16 pm »

Or platforms 8 and 9.
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broadgage
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« Reply #28 on: June 19, 2019, 03:56:23 pm »

The main problem that I can see is the electric loco blocking the line when the wires come down, as seems to occur regularly.
Whilst I don't think much of the downgraded internal fit out of the IETs, they do have the considerable merit of being able to proceed on diesel power if needed.

If this proposed service is to become a reality, perhaps it might be a good opportunity to trial a DVT with traction motors and a lithium battery ?
This would allow limited operation when the wires come down, and would also improve the acceleration.
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A proper intercity train has a minimum of 8 coaches, gangwayed throughout, with first at one end, and a full sized buffet car between first and standard.
It has space for cycles, surfboards,luggage etc.
A 5 car DMU is not a proper inter-city train. The 5+5 and 9 car DMUs are almost as bad.
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« Reply #29 on: June 19, 2019, 05:55:21 pm »

The main problem that I can see is the electric loco blocking the line when the wires come down, as seems to occur regularly.


Why would that be any different to the local electric units that now work in and out of Paddington?

And earlier someone said that the locos are sluggish.  I'm not sure why the application suggests 9 coach trains - I would have thought 6 or 7 would be more than enough (even with a buffet), and that would mean they could be a bit more sprightly. 
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